Here come the results from the survey!

rob77
13 Mar, 2018 17:42
Nikita Misiura
IOTD is not the best image from recently uploaded

Maybe it's my fault, got lost. As long as I remember, we implemented this 3-tier process exactly to promote the best image of the day.
We changed the system 2 years ago exactly because it wasn't based on meritocratic basis.
nekitmm
13 Mar, 2018 17:52
Roberto Colombari
Nikita Misiura
IOTD is not the best image from recently uploaded
Maybe it's my fault, got lost. As long as I remember, we implemented this 3-tier process exactly to promote the best image of the day.
We changed the system 2 years ago exactly because it wasn't based on meritocratic basis.
It is not anyone's fault. It is just "the best" will be always different for different people! People have different opinions on everything and it will always be like that. Current process is not ideal, but very good in selection of good images.

That's the point - we can arrange system to select good images (and we did IMO), but will never come to full agreement on which one is the best.
Edited 13 Mar, 2018 17:54
Barry-Wilson
13 Mar, 2018 17:54
Nikita Misiura
Salvatore Iovene
Guys, I love threads like this but you're now rowing in circles, aren't you?Wouldn't the custom contests module solve all this? With that, you can have as many contests as you want, as specific as you want, recurring, open-ended or single-run, for any topic you want. All community managed. I will make a proposal later in the year (first I need to overhaul the Equipment and Search modules)

I fully agree wih that.

I honestly don't see IOTD as a contest. It is an interesting image selected by community from recent uploads. I like to see it diverse and independent of any categories, etc. For IOTD I like to see interesting, sometimes unexpected selections maybe. If I want to see nice images from backyard imagers, I know where to look, if I want to see nice planetary images, I know where to find them, etc. Categories will kill diversity. Image of the Day is NOT Astrophotographer of the Year. And hence it is at least questionable to apply rules from the second to the first. IOTD is just a brief showcase of an image from recent uploads. IOTD is not the best image from recently uploaded nor it is the best image ever of some particular target. It does not put astrophotographer in an eternal hall of fame or something, it does not mean that the author is the best astrophotographer ever, it does not come with money. It does not tell that the author is better than the others. That is why it is beyond fairness or unfairness to me.

Salvatore's desicion is excellent. Let's just create competiitons for people who want them. Let people who want to compete so badly create competitions with countless categories and increasingly complex rules. I want IOTD interesting and simple.

We already made selection procedure more complicated and all we get are demands to get it even more complicated. This will be an endless growing snowball. That "fairness" people talk here is simply absolutely impossible to achieve.

I mean, take a look at APOD. You submit and image and it is either selected or not. That's it. No categories, no countless input forms to fill, nothing. No questions asked. A black box, you input image and it is either AOPD or not. And each day we get interesting image.

PS. Take as an example today's IOTD. Two people collected the data, while one did processing. Equipment does not belong to the author of IOTD. How do we categorize that? Does not matter to me. It is a very nice animation, loved to see it and want to see selections like this in the future.
I share your sentiments Nikita & today's IOTD is a great example of diversity and astronomical interest smile .
rob77
13 Mar, 2018 18:04
Oh, talking about diversity. Directly from my IOTD selection queue:

https://www.astrobin.com/336875/
https://www.astrobin.com/336861/

Lol…just kidding guys. Don't take it too seriously  smile
Barry-Wilson
13 Mar, 2018 18:29
Roberto Colombari
Oh, talking about diversity. Directly from my IOTD selection queue:- https://www.astrobin.com/336875/
https://www.astrobin.com/336861/

Lol…just kidding guys. Don't take it too seriously  smile
smilesmilesmile , yes Roberto, LOL, we shouldn't take this too seriously!
GWLopez
13 Mar, 2018 18:41
I strongly advocate  the idea of having sufficient revenue generated by Astrobin (entirely by Premium Membership, not advertising) to allow the full-time commitment of Salvatore to managing the site. For someone that enjoys Astrobin everyday and has learned a great deal from my fellow Astrobin users, it is more than worth the cost of Premium Membership.
GWLopez
13 Mar, 2018 18:41
I strongly advocate  the idea of having sufficient revenue generated by Astrobin (entirely by Premium Membership, not advertising) to allow the full-time commitment of Salvatore to managing the site. For someone that enjoys Astrobin everyday and has learned a great deal from my fellow Astrobin users, it is more than worth the cost of Premium Membership.
Israel
14 Mar, 2018 16:43
Very interesting to see how the survey went…
Thanks for showing us the results.. smile
astrojoe
14 Mar, 2018 18:59
I would like to share my opinions on that…
I think that having access to remote and money expensive gears respect to backyard small telescopes is not the point at all… On one side, having big telescopes and gears is not a saver or a plus in generating a good image. That seems to be nonsense but, in my personal experience, I was been lucky enough to had access to many different and exotic instruments, only to find that, if You own a Ferrari formula one and You are less than a perfect pilot driver, the accident is shure. I mean that, the more sophisticated the gears, the more trouble and difficulties in having all performing well is close to nightmare. On the other hand, easy and small setups are much more easy to work with and, despite the apparent performances are lower, the images are easier to get. Still, all that I've just said is not relevant 'cos we should judge the image IN RELATION to the environment and conditions. One big telescope and setup should be used close to it's best possibilities to be considered better than a small one that is close to a miracle performance. For me, with no doubt, the last should be the winner. Also to be considered is the eventual innovation (technical, visual etc.) related to a candidate image to correctly judge it in a contest. More intriguing images, bringing different points of view should be evaluated more respect to just technically corrected (in respect to what? Our visual common perception and knowledge based on the mass database of similar images?) ones.
My two (mabye more smile) cents…
Edited 14 Mar, 2018 19:02
rob77
14 Mar, 2018 19:06
astrojoe
if You own a Ferrari formula one and You are less than a perfect pilot driver, the accident is shure.

Exactly Joe.
This why, IMHO, being able to setup our own gears weights far more than 1% as someone (I don't remember who) stated.

This is why, IMHO, who just download/buy data (I am not talking about people that own a remote setup, I'm purely meaning those who just get the frames online) is basically doing something completely different from people that put in place their own gear. And I'm one of them, you know me smile
Edited 14 Mar, 2018 19:11
joelkuiper
15 Mar, 2018 01:12
I guess the topic is more or less done, but I 'd like to add one more data point. I live in the Netherlands. 2 years ago I started with this hobby from scratch. Knowing absolutely nothing (true story https://joelkuiper.eu/astro). In the past two years I was maybe able to set up the scope 12 times. That is 12 clear nights. Total. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with my progress. I wanted more. Get that APOD, IOTD, magazine print. So fortune favored the bold and I was able to join an existing remote group and purchase the majority of the equipment. And to tell you the truth: remote is not easier. You are literally controlling a robot from a distance. It's  different, sure. But to impose a rank ordering, that's just silly. Maybe it's like sports: pro's don't compete with the little league. That isn't fair, just because physics and economics. But it's not like"pro" is better or worse somehow. Might make for better TV, sure. And, it's not like weekend warriors deserve an Olympic medal either. But the gratification of winning isn't different.   So in my opinion: having 12 clear nights in 2 years wasnt't fair. Living in the inner city (pop 300k in the worst light polluted country on the planet)  wasn't "fair". So yeah, I went remote. Payed the bill, learned the ropes. There are struggles, and teamwork in this solitary hobby is also something that should not be underestimated.

Where am I going with this: life just isn't fair. But, it would be much worse if it /were/ fair, that all the harm and misfortune comes to us because we actually deserve it (paraphrasing Macrus from Babylon 5 here). I'm incredibly fortunate in life, I studied AI, I'm a straight cis-white male in one of the richest countries of the world. Should I be ashamed. Maybe. Is it fair: probably not. But, I decided that I would spend a large portion (if not all) of my disposable income on this hobby, just to see how far it goes. If I become a billionaire, I'll launch my own satellite. Seriously.

So where am I really going with this: I stopped caring about IOTD, APOD. I stopped submitting to /r/astrophotography for the same reason. Seeing iPhone lunar shots get more upvotes than my images made me feel defeated. In my perspective that wasn't fair. Why did someone who just points their phone to an eye piece get more likes/recognition/upvotes than my images. They take days to process, and  the equipment a small fortune to buy. Not to mention the countless hours of learning everything from A-Z. Alpha to Omega. And, rather than saying "good job" people expected me to give the acquisition details and all the post-processing steps in detail  (down to the parameters!) just to somehow "justify" what I did.  There was a disconnect between what I thought was reasonable, and what others expected.  In "regular" photography nobody cares, no pro photographer examines the EXIF data. Seriously: do you care what Anton Corbijn used?  I expected something similar. but this was different. And I didn't like that, and I fear astrobin might be headed in the same direction. But that's not on anyone, it's only on me.  It's vanity, or even jealousy. However, I decided I don't need that aspect of the hobby. I'll probably just leave. It's a hobby. And only a hobby. I fill out enough tax return forms in my life. I do enough justification of my actions to others. I don't need that aspect of it, but if that's what's needed to get an IOTD…then I guess I'm not worthy. I'm just here to see how far it goes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1SkepihYLE

ah well, it's all politics (http://pbfcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PBF078-Nautical_Awards.jpg)
Edited 15 Mar, 2018 01:45
bobzeq25
17 Mar, 2018 18:30
Thank you so much for this, and for everything else.

No need to be defensive at all about making money with this.  Whatever you make, you're underpaid.

No need to be defensive about making decisions about the site.  You are the appropriate authority.
Somebody will always disagree with any decisions anyone makes.  BTDTGTTS.  <smile>

Do keep working on attracting more people to the site, and to membership.  The two critical things
about astrobin are the members, and you.
Edited 17 Mar, 2018 18:32
Geoff
24 Apr, 2018 01:53
Salvatore Iovene
I will add the following tags/badges to be added to all images by the uploader: Backyard: image acquired from home
Traveling: image acquired by traveling somewhere with one's equipment
Remote: image was acquired from home, controlling a remote setup
Downloaded: image was the result of post-processing data that was ordered and downloaded
Professional: image was the result of post-processing data download from a professional observatory
Other: none of the above

There is a categoryI would like to see included here: Travelling to a permanent setup away from home.
Our astro society has a 40 hectare site in the country to which members travel every new moon.  Many of us have permanent observatories there which we operate on site ie we don't operate them remotely nor do we bring the equipment every time we travel.
Edited 24 Apr, 2018 01:53
 
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