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I agree

New volunteers needed for the IOTD selection board 2019

Andys_Astropix
18 Jan, 2019 21:32
Steve Milne
It doesn’t sound harsh, Sigga.  I can see both points of view.  I am not sure how the IOTDs are chosen.  Is it one pick or by a ‘committee’?  If one pick, then I didn’t see an issue since a judge couldn’t choose his or her own image.

Currently it's one pick by any of the 7 judges - no discussion, no committee.
In professional photography comps judges works can be included, as the photos are judged anonymously, by a group of 5 judges. Prior to a judges piece coming up for assessment, that judge is discreetly rotated off the panel, so it's a very fair system.

I've enjoyed judging IOTD, and will happily continue but not if judges images are ineligible.
I see the competition as an opportunity and a push to create better images, from which we all learn and benefit.  smile
Snjór
18 Jan, 2019 21:40
Steve I  not know how decided  in end not frankly do I care. But if have judge final image and that judge have image selected seem issue to me.   Just my opinion and as you say others may have different idea.

Also to be clear this for me just matter equity and no insult to anyone or idea.

Sigga
Snjór
18 Jan, 2019 22:07
Sigga
Edited 19 Jan, 2019 13:25
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
19 Jan, 2019 00:35
Hi Salvatore, Hi everyone,

I have been submiter for the last year and it has been a great experience.
I would be glad to continue to participate in 2019 as reviewer… just to change a little and because I believe I have no legitimity for beeing a judge.

My 2 cents about Andy's thoughts : in a perfect world, all the people involved in the selection should not be able to compete.
But, we have to be realistic : finding 50 people who are motivated enought to participate to this selection process and who would resign about a possible award for their photos during a year is impossible…

So, I believe that everyone here should be able to compete, including the judges. After all, there are only 7 of them… if allowing them to compete quickly leads to an over-representation of their own images in IOTD, it should be easy to find it out.

Submiters can compete but not submit their own images.
Reviewers can compete but not review their own images.

Is it such an issue that judges can compete but not vote for their own images ?

Best,
JB
Edited 19 Jan, 2019 00:53
Miguel_Morales
19 Jan, 2019 03:13
I think I would like to be a submitter and offer my services as such.
Miguel   8-)
whwang
19 Jan, 2019 05:34
I have no strong opinions on whether a judge's image can be selected as IOTD.  As Steve said, each side has good points.

However, if we do decide that a judge's image is eligible for IOTD, one good thing to do is to make the process as blind as possible.

As for now, if an image is entering the final pool for IOTD, it will show up as a top pick.  So there is no way to prevent the judge from knowing that his/her own image has entered the final stage.  However, we can still prevent that particular judge from seeing who picked that image for IOTD and whether it has been picked (until the day it finally shows up as an IOTD or finally disappears from the pool).  This way, the other judges can feel much less pressure when making a decision on whether to promote that particular image to IOTD or not, so everyone can act more honestly.

My 2 cents.
Andys_Astropix
19 Jan, 2019 07:03
Wei-Hao Wang
However, we can still prevent that particular judge from seeing who picked that image for IOTD and whether it has been picked (until the day it finally shows up as an IOTD or finally disappears from the pool)
That sounds fair - can something like Wei-Hao's suggestion be easily programmed by Salvatore?
Ethan
19 Jan, 2019 09:20
Wei-Hao Wang
As for now, if an image is entering the final pool for IOTD, it will show up as a top pick. So there is no way to prevent the judge from knowing that his/her own image has entered the final stage.

That could be remedied by hiding the top picks label and page from judges and perhaps anyone that's not logged in to prevent peeking through logging out or private browsing, at least until the image leaves the pool.

–Ethan
Die_Launische_Diva
19 Jan, 2019 09:32
Ethan & Geo Chappel
Wei-Hao Wang
As for now, if an image is entering the final pool for IOTD, it will show up as a top pick. So there is no way to prevent the judge from knowing that his/her own image has entered the final stage.
That could be remedied by hiding the top picks label and page from judges and perhaps anyone that's not logged in to prevent peeking through logging out or private browsing, at least until the image leaves the pool.

–Ethan

An easier solution is displaying the Top Pick labels at the end of each judging cycle, i.e., award the Top Picks at the same time as the IOTDs.

Having said that, maybe it is time to reconsider allowing the judges to "unpick" a Top Pick?
Edited 19 Jan, 2019 09:33
Hartmuth_Kintzel
19 Jan, 2019 10:08
The majority would certainly not understand it, if the judges would compete themselves. This has nothing to do with fairness, but with credibility.
That's why I would leave it as it is.

Hartmuth
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
19 Jan, 2019 14:21
Hartmuth Kintzel
The majority would certainly not understand it, if the judges would compete themselves. This has nothing to do with fairness, but with credibility.
That's why I would leave it as it is.

Hartmuth

I understand the point about credibility ; even if it is fair that judges compete, there would always be some kind of suspicion.

Maybe the simplest way is to continue with the same system ; after all Harmuth is offering to be judge and considers that it would not be fair to compete in the same time… if there is no difficulty to find 7 people accepting that, there is no problem… smile

jb
Andys_Astropix
20 Jan, 2019 00:39
Surely Astrobin needs the most qualified available Astrophotographers to judge Iotd? Ruling out seven of them on a presumption of percieved unfairness only reduces the pool of available top judges.
Edited 20 Jan, 2019 00:39
whwang
20 Jan, 2019 03:24
ruccdu
Hi, Salvatore.  I've been a submitter this past year and in spite of my enthusiasm going in, I didn't enjoy the experience.  Please remove me from the list of submitters and make room for someone else.I found the process took far longer than the 5-15 minutes I thought it would take in order to appease those who complained that poor choices were being made and that better images were overlooked.  It takes far longer to look at the full image for context and then zoom in to examine the corners and every square inch to make sure there were no "anomalies" than I wanted to put into the process.  I went in thinking IOD was just for fun, but it appears there are enough others that really take it seriously.

Thanks for letting me participate, though, and I still feel this is the best AstroImaging site!!

Ron
I can understand this large workload.  Although I haven't been in the submit/review/judge system for a while, I still try to quickly browse through all new images every day (unless I am on vacation, or my network environment does not allow this), and then click "like" to images that I like.  Even with this casual browsing, it takes 5 to 10 minutes away from me.  I can imagine when a submitter feels obligate to promote good images to the review level, he/she must spend much more time on this, every day.

I have an idea about reducing submitter's work load.  How about at the submission level, we take a hybrid approach?  The submitters can submit images to the reviewer pool.  Also, top N new images that receive the most likes within M days can also go to the reviewer pool.  This essentially combine what Astrobin had done before, the popular like system and the submitter system.  This way, the submitters should feel less pressure about not missing any good images.  Even if they miss some, the popular vote system is likely to pick up those overlooked ones.

However, the popular votes should only work at the submission level.  After that, only reviewers and judges can promote images to the next level.  This should help to fix some issues.
skywalkerww37
20 Jan, 2019 15:15
Hi, Salvatore

I would like to volunteer as a submitter. I'm active daily and visit the site several times a day, really enjoy the forum!

Best.
Zhuoqun Wu
StephanHamel
20 Jan, 2019 19:13
I am available as a submitter if you need someone.

Thanks
jeffbax
20 Jan, 2019 20:12
Hello salvatore i would prefer To rest this year.
Jf
RickS
21 Jan, 2019 08:46
I'm happy to be a reviewer again if needed but will also happily drop out and give the spot to someone new.

Cheers,
Rick.
xamad
21 Jan, 2019 15:28
Hello salvatore I would be happy to take the next step and volunteer as a reviewer.
Gianni
Arringar
23 Jan, 2019 04:09
I would like to volunteer as a submitter.  I am constantly active on Astrobin and really enjoy the site.  It would be great to be able to participate and contribute.
Edited 23 Jan, 2019 04:29
PeterFeltóti
23 Jan, 2019 14:06
Andy
Surely Astrobin needs the most qualified available Astrophotographers to judge Iotd? Ruling out seven of them on a presumption of percieved unfairness only reduces the pool of available top judges.

This is a very strong argument and I can agree with it!
PeterFeltóti
23 Jan, 2019 14:12
Dear Salvatore!
I've been a submitter in 2018 and I would be happy to continue the contribution in the IOTD board as a reviewer or a judge, but if I remain a submitter or you choose to drop me out to create opportunity for others is also OK!
Thanks
Péter
-Amenophis-
23 Jan, 2019 14:41
Hello Salvatore!

for the next period I would like to volunteer as submitter or reviewer.

Best regards
Thomas
dhavalbbhatt
23 Jan, 2019 14:48
Hello Salvatore,
I would like to be considered for any of the three positions.

Thanks,
Dhaval
regis83
24 Jan, 2019 20:13
Good evening (GMT +1 smile  )

I will be very happy to be in the IOTD members.
Any positions needed.

Best regards.
Barry-Wilson
25 Jan, 2019 12:48
I'm happy to be considered for whatever vacancy arises Salvatore.

Best regards,

Barry
 
This topic was closed by a moderator.