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What is the workflow of Top Pick's selection ?

31 Jan, 2019 17:21

Last year I raised a question about the evaluation model of Top Picks and IOTD (IOTD and Top Picks Manifesto, pages: 1,2,3 … 19). As far as I know, the discussion was Astrobin's longest, but in my opinion it did not produce the results I expected.

Recently I saw that this year it was necessary to adjust the panel of decision makers and I remembered something that seemed to me more important:

What is the Top Picks selection criterion? Is it to the personal taste of each member of the jury or is there a typified model that the jury usually follows? If so, who validated it and where can it be consulted?

Thank you.
31 Jan, 2019 17:42
Ruben Barbosa
What is the Top Picks selection criterion? Is it to the personal taste of each member of the jury or is there a typified model that the jury usually follows?

As far as I'm concerned, it's personal taste. I scan the full resolution photo, check the details, and skim the description and comments before selecting images.

I don't remember the exact details of how top picks are earned, but I know it takes more than one person involved in the IOTD process selecting a photo.

31 Jan, 2019 18:39
Thank you Ethan for your response.

I remember that Jean-Baptiste Auroux described a fairly detailed analysis workflow that could be slightly adjusted and adopted by all jury members.

I also remember that Roberto Colombari wanted to discuss this.

What credibility does a selection have that is based on each person's personal criteria?

But beyond the process of choosing Top Pick, we also need to choose members for the jury who understand the image. The jury can not be composed of members with little experience of image processing; you have to be people with experience.

So here are two important things to discuss: the Top Pick selection worflow and the qualifications needed to be a part of the jury.
05 Mar, 2019 18:14
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:51
05 Mar, 2019 20:12
the Top Picks window is 7 days, from memory. I don't know why you are wondering. It might be selected later, it might be that there are better pictures in the queue, it might be that nobody liked it, it might be that nobody noticed it, etc. Feel free to volunteer and be part of the process.
05 Mar, 2019 20:48
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:52
05 Mar, 2019 21:05
Hello everyone.
I am accompanying the discussions about the choice of images for some time (included anoter discussion). As in the current discussion there is an image of me being used as an example, I found it important to comment and try to collaborate with the process.
As a Salvatore suggestion, it might be important to re-evaluate or even define some rules for choosing the images.
As you mentioned, in the current case may have better images and even go unnoticed by those who indicate.
But I see that we can improve the system.
Hugs from Brazil: Maicon Germiniani
05 Mar, 2019 22:18
Ruben Barbosa
Thank you for the invitation but I can not accept it.As I have had the opportunity to express before, I do not agree with the current system, which as far as I know does not even have rules / recommendations / procedures for choosing images.

Maicon Germiniani
As a Salvatore suggestion, it might be important to re-evaluate or even define some rules for choosing the images.
As you mentioned, in the current case may have better images and even go unnoticed by those who indicate.
But I see that we can improve the system.
The roles of the volunteer IOTD staff are here:

Anyone can volunteer! Salvatore puts out a call around the beginning of each year. I am a new volunteer on IOTD staff in 2019. I am one of the "submitters".  The basic workflow is this:
Each submitter has a queue of every photo uploaded to astrobin. Those users who have said in their preferences that they don't want to participate in TP/IOTD have a big X through their pics and we can't choose them. Same thing with our own photos; you can't pick your own photo.
The submitters role is to narrow it down to a smaller pool of photos that the "reviewers" then pick for "Top Picks".
Lastly a smaller group of "Judges" picks the IOTD from the Top Picks.

There are no strict rules or requirements for picking and keep in mind that this is a volunteer position that takes me 15-30 minutes every day to do. I have been working with the other IOTD staff on creating a 'guidelines' document that will help in choosing images, but I want to be clear that this document is not meant to be strict requirements, just a helpful document for incoming IOTD staff. It is very much a work-in-progress still, so I don't want to share it quite yet, but when/if we get the document in better shape, I will gladly share it for all of the AB community to see.

In the mean time, please see these thoughts by Andy, which are being used heavily as a starting point for the new guidelines I am working on:

If you have any questions about the IOTD workflow or specific suggestions I can work in, please do let me know.

Cheers! Nico
05 Mar, 2019 22:47
Hi Nico,

Maybe I did not express myself well. What I said is that the selection criteria (not decision circuits) of the images should be known to everyone.
Can you show me a link that shows the steps taken in selecting a Top Pick?

As I said above, Roberto Colombari tried to create the rules of image selection but I think this conversation did not have the desired follow-up. It would be good to take this job.

05 Mar, 2019 23:04
Are we arguing about the speed of an image becoming TP lol ? Where's the facepalm emoticon ??
05 Mar, 2019 23:32
Hi Roberto,

The speed is not the point and you know it.
06 Mar, 2019 00:14
Honestly posting other's (or our friend's) images asking why they don't get TP after XYZ hours, just this seems a little bit weird.
This post shouldn't  have been done even when the TP time window would have expired.
Do it after 21 hours from the image publication is a nonsense! Sorry Ruben to be quite direct but if you stop and think well, you'll agree with me that it doesn't make any sense
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 01:20
06 Mar, 2019 00:25
Ruben Barbosa
the selection criteria

Sorry I misunderstood you. There are no official selection criteria. It is up the discretion of the individual.

The guidelines that I am working on with other IOTD staff are more educational in nature, just trying to collect the wisdom of a number of people in one place. These guidelines will be different individuals thoughts on how they go about selecting images for TP/IOTD. See the link to Andy's thoughts in my last post for a good example.
When the guidelines are finished, and with the permission of the other collaborators, I will publish them for all to see.
If you have any thoughts about what you would like to see in guidelines like these, feel free to let me know here or in a direct message.
I would also encourage you to volunteer yourself for IOTD staff! One of the main ideas is to get a variety of viewpoints and expertise!

Cheers! Nico
06 Mar, 2019 08:19
Roberto Colombari
Are we arguing about the speed of an image becoming TP lol ? Where's the facepalm emoticon ??

lol 😂 - I nominated that image as a TP when I saw it for the 1st time here this morning. I’m on a different time zone to many as I’m in Australia.
I can see why Robert says your comments are out of line here Ruben. If you’re not willing to join the adjudication team then you’re really just creating a problem by bringing up non existent conspiracies - whereas you could be offering a solution instead!
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 10:27
06 Mar, 2019 13:58
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:54
06 Mar, 2019 14:13
Ruben Barbosa
Roberto,Para ti irei responder em português dado que por duas vezes não entendeste o meu inglês. O tempo não é o fator que está em causa. O que me despertou a atenção foi o facto de uma imagem de qualidade média ser nomeada Top Picks em 2 horas e a imagem do Maicon precisar de 22 horas (mais
esta conversa) para ser Top Pick. Repara que não é o tempo que está em causa mas sim o critério de escolha. Se o critério fosse tipificado, a imagem seria TP em
menos de 2 horas. Repito: não é o tempo, é o critério.
Ruben, Maicon's image must not get a TP after 5 seconds from his publication just because *you* think that it is the best image in the known Universe of this object.
If you want a mere opinion about  the image: yes it is a beautiful image, less at the highest resolution. Worth of TP? Probably yes. After 5 seconds from the publication? Maybe not.

What it seems absolutely weird is going in a public thread asking why this image isn't yet TP. If I were Maicon, I would have asked you to delete the post.

Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:19
06 Mar, 2019 14:17
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:30
06 Mar, 2019 14:22
Hello everyone.I comment again because I am not really comfortable with the fact that an image of mine is being exposed and discussed in this way. This is not how I want to see the Astrobin community. For me it matters little whether or not it will be top pick or IOTD.
If the discussion continues, I'd rather have my picture removed from this post.
Hugs: Maicon Germiniani
06 Mar, 2019 14:29
As far as I can understand, the $ 36/year are for infrastructure costs and not for image curating and organizing contests. The latter are purely volunteer and purely for fun. Unfortunately some have taken the IOTD/Top Pick too seriously. Salvatore makes a call for volunteers each year. Some instead of accepting the challenge and become a volunteer, they raise the argument of AB being a payed service. Or the argument of a busy life. All of us are busy with our lives, jobs, family matters, some of us may be ill or unemployed, but we still offer our time to volunteer and have fun. Life is hard, there is no need bringing people into difficult and unpleasant situations for such petite issues like earning or not a "badge". There are other sites full of "badges", "hearts", "stars" and such, and they are for free.
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 14:30
06 Mar, 2019 14:38
if the Salvatore observes the private messages, you will see that yesterday I asked for my image to be taken from the discussion.
Hugs: Maicon Germiniani
06 Mar, 2019 14:48
Thats ok, i will remove your image and my comments too.
I did not find any option to delete the post so i deleted all my comments.

Can you remove this post?

You can continue the discussion here:
Edited 06 Mar, 2019 15:03
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