What are your thoughts on enforcing equipment and acquisition details on images?

KuriousGeorge
20 Nov, 2015 02:12
You could always asks the publisher for the details. Wouldn't want to discourage anyone from posting their image.  But I agree you should get some "extra credit" for doing it as an incentive. Would like to see ability to 100% copy everything from a prior image (including all acquisition details) and just tweak it.

A graphical UI to quickly define details would be awesome. Sliders and other drag-and-drop controls to make it super fun, fast and simple.
mads0100
23 Nov, 2015 18:23
Salvatore Iovene
A user recently emailed me proposing that image details should be enforced on AstroBin, i.e. you should not be able to upload an image unless you provide at least some details.On hand it makes sense, because a big part of why AstroBin was born, five years ago, was that I hated seeing all these amazing astrophotograph scattered around on the Internet, with no details because the images were hosted on general purpose hosting services and the details were maybe in a different context, like a forum.

On the other hand, enforcing the details would mean there's a barrier and some people would be less inclined to share their images.

What are your thoughts?
Could you make it so that we can copy filters from images? I often use very similar filter setups for my pictures and it's tiresome to always put in the same filters over and over again.
siovene
23 Nov, 2015 19:32
Chris Madson
Could you make it so that we can copy filters from images? I often use very similar filter setups for my pictures and it's tiresome to always put in the same filters over and over again.

Absolutely. The acquisition detail screens need a really good overhaul.
zcdawson
26 Nov, 2015 05:51
Could we make it based on file size. I like this site because of the files sizes I can upload and share. If someone wants to just upload a thumbnail size file then the acquisition details are not needed because there is no detail if they're uploading a large file then the details should be there.
seigell
26 Nov, 2015 15:53
Zac Dawson
Could we make it based on file size. I like this site because of the files sizes I can upload and share. If someone wants to just upload a thumbnail size file then the acquisition details are not needed because there is no detail if they're uploading a large file then the details should be there.

Do you envision many AstroBin participants posting only Thumbnail/Small Images, given the Strong emphasis on AP Imaging of both the Data and Social sides of the Site and Forum??
Other than those referencing Images hosted on other Sites, I don't think that many Users will feel they can Participate/Compete unless they Post in Large-Size.
zcdawson
26 Nov, 2015 16:01
Let's take a step back and look at this. Right now filling out the acquisition data is optional but 90% of people participating fill it out, why because it asks you to the option is there
carastro
28 Nov, 2015 00:05
I like to see acquisition detail, but do find the forms a bit of a rigmarole to fill out especially if you have new equipment or have imaged in a new site or something as you then have to stop and add new categories to your equipment etc.

So I tend to write my acquisition details in the description area.

Carole
Goofi
28 Nov, 2015 01:07
Part of me wants to say, "No IOTD without basic imaging data" … but really, the two should not be linked.

As I see it, it's just good practice to include basic imaging data: Scope & Camera use, sub length and number of subs, any filters.  No, the location really doesn't matter - although if you're at a dark site it'd be nice to say so.  Some in the hobby are here to have fun; why force them to 'follow the rules' …? Others are serious, call them semi-pro, and they really should be doing best practices.  Just my two cents.

It's too easy to copy from an existing image; to me there's no excuse for not loading basic data.

Changing topics, I don't see Sal as a problem … not with IOTD or any other aspect of the site. All I can do is say "Thanks!" for providing the service. Yes, I'd love better searches - especially the ability to search for narrowband images smile   - but I'm more focused on Sal's continued efforts at making the site work, and the incremental improvements. So again, thanks.
radu
03 Dec, 2015 20:44
I would enforce acquisition details. Images without acquisition details are worthless. I am looking at amateur images because I want to see what other people managed to do, with what kind of equipment, in what kind of seeing conditions. Detailing some of the processing techniques would be useful too.

I come to AstroBin to  learn. If I wanted to see good images I would look at Hubble, ESO, APOD and Wikipedia.

For example this image: http://www.astrobin.com/92976/ , a good picture, but without acquisition details is worthless to me. There is absolutely no useful information, just clutter. If I wanted to see a good picture I would have looked here http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140813.html .

This http://www.astrobin.com/189415/ might not be as good as my first example, but it has the acquisition details. I am new to astrophotography, and seeing what other people can do with low end equipment helps set my expectations.

I don't agree with previous statements, I think that a lot more than 10% of the images lack acquisition details.

If not banning the images, at least implement a filter, so I can just ignore them.
Edited 03 Dec, 2015 20:46
msoutham
14 Dec, 2015 01:13
Details should be optional. I'm here to learn so I wish everyone would include acquisition details and always try to include as much detail of my images in return. However, I'd rather look at an image with no details than no image at all and enforcement would definitely discourage upload.
lily4ever
01 Jan, 2016 00:24
My opinion is part of the majority in that it is disappointing not to see acquisition details, but it should still be optional. My astrophotos are extremely, extremely  basic and I like looking at others' that are at or just slightly above my skill level to learn from them. However, I can see how those people would have trouble adding acquisition details when they are extreme beginners. Definitely don't want to scare them away. Heck I still don't really understand how to input anything beyond the equipment. Like someone else mentioned, I tend to write everything in the description box instead.
dayers
01 Jan, 2016 01:55
All I want is a professionally managed site where I can post my images for others to see and comment on if they wish. I am not the least interested in IOTD and would wish to be able to opt out of that competition.
siovene
01 Jan, 2016 07:15
David
All I want is a professionally managed site where I can post my images for others to see and comment on if they wish. I am not the least interested in IOTD and would wish to be able to opt out of that competition.

Hi David,
yes, that feature is going to be implemented very soon.
torsinadoc
02 Jan, 2016 22:40
I wish everyone would fill out acquisition details but I do not feel it should be required.  I use this site for assistance with target selection and it is much easier if people put equipment, etc.
GvnrRickPerry
04 Jan, 2016 21:00
Salvatore Iovene
A user recently emailed me proposing that image details should be enforced on AstroBin, i.e. you should not be able to upload an image unless you provide at least some details.On hand it makes sense, because a big part of why AstroBin was born, five years ago, was that I hated seeing all these amazing astrophotograph scattered around on the Internet, with no details because the images were hosted on general purpose hosting services and the details were maybe in a different context, like a forum.

On the other hand, enforcing the details would mean there's a barrier and some people would be less inclined to share their images.

What are your thoughts?
Salvatore,

I absolutely LOVE this idea, but I think there would have to be some "tweaks" to make it work. For example, people that choose to upload Hubble data - I know that most of the exposure times are posted there with the data, so it would be easy to figure that out, but you may want to consider making it more general like giving it a "Hubble Historic Data" exposure length on the dropdown. Of course, then there's the risk of everyone using that option every time no matter what, but maybe you could make the image "ineligible" for IOTD if they choose that option… Mmmm ideas ideas, LOL!

All in all, I enter as much as possible every time I upload something no matter what, and often times go back and add additional information later. I think it's cool and informative to have as much information as possible with your images so others can see and compare and have something better to work towards (and know what that may be).
-Gov
jlandy
04 Jan, 2016 22:52
I prefer to see the image details (though I wouldn't be terribly upset either way). If a user is providing data from the Hubble Archives (for example) it might be nice to have that as a selectable option in lieu of providing acquisition details. Maybe you could do a trial - subscribing members can do whatever they want (no details or every detail), unsubscribed have to provide some sort of origin of the data
HomerPepsi
11 Jan, 2016 21:58
I like to see images regardless of details or not.

I find great use in seeing equipment details. Seeing what others are accomplishing with the same gear, or what you could hypothetically produce with certain equipment you are prospecting gives the site great value.

Acquisition details are nice but definitely should not be enforced (I feel as if only staunch experts and scientific minded folk would disagree with me here).

In fact, from a traffic / usage perspective, anything enforced beyond the basic details page and what is already required would be a terrible business decision. People like to upload and go. That is the world. If you do not allow that here, they will move elsewhere and reduce AstroBin revenue.

A passive way to make people conform to standards would be better. Such as modifying search to exclude images without gear, exclude images with acquisition details. Or adding a small badge to each image in a users gallery, something on the edge that doesn't block the thumbnail, that's pleasing and makes a user say "Hey! I want that little Acquisition Details badge on all my images".

In the image you could add a flashyer badge that makes the user feel accomplished.

And as stated before, maybe allow filling out details to boost your index score. The people at the top should be giving this information as it betters the community in my opinion. smile
tolgagumus
22 Jan, 2016 21:37
For me a big part of what I like about AB is the fact that I can see acquisition information. For instance today I was helping a friend process and I wanted to see other images that were taken with similar equipment and see what's possible. When I searched I got many results with no information. Maybe it would be a good idea not to require it but perhaps some sort of a reward for people who do post it. How about the plate solve function? One must enter some minimum to be able to use that feature? Type of scope, camera, exposure time, ISO, filters etc.
Edited 22 Jan, 2016 21:38
BobGillette
24 Jan, 2016 13:28
I too would prefer optional image information – but perhaps a pop-up message for someone who pushes the final submission button without this information, or the complete info.  Something like a sad- face and "Hi,   smile  viewers would like to know how, when and where you made this image. Are you sure you don't want to submit it?"

A No button would take them back to the form; Yes would proceed with posting.

Bob
carl0s
03 Jul, 2016 04:55
Forcing people to do some labour is always a bad thing.
Also it increases the threshold for newcomers. We should not scare them off by such things.
Pro users will usually share the info anyway.  So do we really need to discuss it ?

An UI re-work is a good thing. Make things easy to use ,but not mandatory. People will love it.
klausbaerbel
03 Jul, 2016 09:28
Salvatore Iovene
On the other hand, enforcing the details would mean there's a barrier and some people would be less inclined to share their images.

What are your thoughts?
This is the point.

When i startet to use Astrobin i was so confused about the amount of details i could fill in to my pictures.
It took a while to understand how to use the detailsheets.
When it would be madatory i would have given up Astrobin.
thfrey
03 Jul, 2016 14:15
I started astrophotography half a year ago. For me as a totaly beginner, Astrobin was a big help, to decide what equippment will deliver the result i will get and also the aquiring data will help to define how i can get there. Many of you post the details of used equippment and also Imaging parameters.
Pictures without data i will perhaps have a look at, but close them after viewing. Normally, i dont give them a like.
Anyway, i dont think it is neccessary to enforce people to enter the data if they dont want to do.
I get a real benefit of the equippment and aquiring data, so of course i will provide my data also. In my opinion, this is what makes Astrobin so helpfull and interesting for amateurs. Exchanging the experience, and also the discussions and help you can get here. But also a lot of nice pictures to see, and also ideas what to try to aquire next.
IOTD is not the reason to be here, and i think you will need a few hundred followers to get enough likes to have a Picture there, perhaps this is the reason often the same names are seen there. But dont missunderstand this. The pictures there are all worth to be there,
Sure i am happy about every Like for my pictures too, but it is not the reason to be here. I learned a lot here.
The optional informations i get here is the reason i am here, It would be nice if everyone provides the information, but it should not be a must. Thanks to all providing it.

Thilo
Ethan
06 Jul, 2016 01:09
Perhaps it might help to include short descriptions hidden behind a small information button to help newcomers that are still trying to figure out what various things mean.
WesChilton
02 Aug, 2016 16:41
There are two separate issues here, the first is whether or not it should be mandatory to submit some acquisition details.

The other is the functionality of the system to do so. I think this issue is relevant to the first insofar as "scaring new users off" is concerned.

First of all I think that is an exaggerated concern and I do believe that at least a basic level of details should be required. Pretty pictures are useless if you don't know anything about how they are created. Scope, camera, filters and sub exposures at minimum should be included. This is the number one reason I am here. It's an enormous help knowing what it takes to capture certain objects, not including this information is a disservice to the community.

I always make full effort to put in as much detail as possible for the benefit of everyone looking at my images. I strongly believe that this is one of the most important community aspects of this site. Without it, the site has little value beyond a simple gallery.

Making the detail entry system more user friendly would go a very long way to helping everyone to do this. In any case users should be expected to learn the system. I don't buy the excuses… Astroimaging is far more difficult than entering the acquisition details on this site! Learn how to use it and be diligent in sharing your information for the benefit of everyone here.
tphelan88
25 May, 2017 16:01
Wes Chilton
In any case users should be expected to learn the system. I don't buy the excuses… Astroimaging is far more difficult than entering the acquisition details on this site! Learn how to use it and be diligent in sharing your information for the benefit of everyone here.

Thank you Wes! My feelings exactly. Now that Astrobin is a subscription-based site I think it should be mandatory to enter basic acquisition details about every image submitted. You don't have to put in your location and social security number but at a bare minimum we like to see scope, camera, focal length, exposure number/length, filters, and mount. This website is much more sophisticated than say, www.reddit.com/r/astrophotography and over there acquisition details are required or your post may be removed. I would expect a paid website to be more strict than a free website.

Not only that but it's very frustrating when I'm doing an advanced image search by scope size and I see images of the galaxy I'm after that look like they're shot with a 14" scope when my parameters were set for 80mm refractor. That's because the image has no acquisition details. The way I see it, having acquisition details for all images only benefits the community. If doing that is a barrier for some then maybe they should bring a notepad with them next time they image.
 
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