Cookie consent

AstroBin saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to deliver better content and for statistical purposes. You can disable the usage of cookies by changing the settings of your browser. By browsing AstroBin without changing the browser settings, you grant us permission to store that information on your device.

I agree

What are your thoughts on enforcing equipment and acquisition details on images?

Ethan
23 Mar, 2018 00:55
I don't think we should be requiring people to provide any details, but I think we should instead allow users to easily filter out any images that lack information of the user's choice anywhere on the website if they desire. It could double as an incentive for people to include more information because any unfilled info would lead to less exposure to other users that would enable filters.

Hmm… I know how to program in Python and use Django. Maybe I have an idea to contribute as code (if the time comes around and enough people like the idea)! ūüėČ

–Ethan
Edited 23 Mar, 2018 00:55
AMultiverse
23 Mar, 2018 02:49
I like Ethan's suggestion. Instead of trying to control people, give people more control.
carastro
23 Mar, 2018 12:19
For me - putting the details in the description is far easier than filling in the various forms.  But I guess this doesn't assist with "searches".

Or does it?

Is it possible to "search" only images with details attached/included, this would save a lot of frustration?

Carole
Bluesky71
23 Mar, 2018 12:35
Personally speaking, it is indifferent to see details in the Astrobin technical card rather than in the description section, I prefer anyway Astrobin technical card as it is more clear and easy to be read.
I agree that we can't oblige people to put technical details of the photo, even if for me it is a "nonsense" propose an image without any data (I'm speaking about scope used, ccd etc., not a description of the object photographed).
But yes, I think it would be nice to have the possibility to filter the images without any data when I do a search in Astrobin.
Lasastard
23 Mar, 2018 13:19
I would prefer that at least some basic information be mandatory for submission - say : optics, camera, number of subs and exposure lengths

Astrophotography is, after all, a fairly technical hobby. So it makes sense to me that when sharing the results, that some technical detail is available for me to judge and compare (for example to my own efforts).
tphelan88
23 Mar, 2018 13:42
Yes, Marc. Finally someone else agrees with me. Unfortunately I see that I am in the vast minority on this issue. I wish people would stop looking at it in terms of coercion or control. From Astrobin's own "About" page:

"On a general purpose image sharing site, you would upload your image and be done with it.¬†AstroBin, instead, has a user interface specifically designed to enable you to input all the technical data of your image…Have you ever wanted to see how your next image is going to look like? On¬†AstroBin, you can search for all images of a certain target that were taken with a certain telescope and a certain CCD or camera. Or a certain filter. How about all the images between 6 and 8 hours of integration? Or with a certain Moon phase? You can do that!…As you have undoubtly realized by now,¬†AstroBin¬†is way more than an image hosting service."

If acquisition data is voluntary then why even post images here? You're not taking advantage of the full capabilities of the website? You might as well ditch Astrobin and post to a free image hosting website. The sole reason I post my images on Astrobin instead of Imgur, Flickr, and others is specifically because I can log all the technical data. It is too robust a platform to not take advantage of its full capabilities. Like Marc said above, if I were running the website I would require the following fields on each image submission:  imaging telescope/lens, camera, mount, number of subs, exposure length, and number of calibration frames (darks, bias, flats, dark flats). I don't want to control your lives, I want this community to be more robust.
jtrezzo
24 Mar, 2018 21:10
It's just pure laziness to not put the image details in. A huge part of what makes this site so useful is being able to see the details. I am always turned off when I see an image with nothing. I don't necessarily think it should be mandatory, but I think the "minor penalties" idea i.e. images only appearing in a user's gallery, is not a bad one.
carl0s
25 Mar, 2018 00:19
1.)  Enforcing is always bad. People have stated good reasons against it already.
2.)  Also , a coercive "solution" can be circumvented easily by entering some fake data.  Nothing is gained here with an exception of additional buerocracy.

I'm trying to add data when I'm posting something and I also encourage people to do so. But  please don't project your expectations on other people, don't call them lazy etc. They have their reasons for adding or not adding the tech info. That's their good right. We shouldn't judge them by not filling a crappy web formular. Let them do astrophotography.

Also , good astrophotographers here, usually include all info one want to know. So if someone want to learn something about their equipment, he will find this info easily.

So yes, global stream filters, filters and improved search quality is the way to go, but not coercion through web formulars

clear sky  smilesmilesmile
AMultiverse
25 Mar, 2018 02:13
Given that Salvatore trying to make a living doing this, I think that he should check to see what percentage of paying customers fill out the technical information. I don't think he should tell us what he finds. However, whatever the results, it should help guide him in making his final decisions. We can argue all we want about different ideologies, but he has to be practical.
MikeF29
26 Mar, 2018 03:32
Salvatore, you can’t be all things to all people. I think the site is really great as is.

As a noob, I learn a lot from those that share their information and I really appreciate
those that do.

But in my humble opinion, it would be a terrible idea to force people to share that stuff. That would be like ¬†old style Communism, lol…

i like to to share and help people when I can. Seems like a lot of your members do too. But then, some don’t and I guess that’s ok with me.
yeb
26 Mar, 2018 04:54
Hi Salvatore,

I totally agree that acquisition details is a key feature of Astrobin and that people should be strongly encouraged to fill this useful metadata.
Maybe "likes" mechanism on the image should be locked until minimum details are filled. Alert the user if his image will not be likable.
But images should always be visible, searchable, followers notified and even IOTD selectable.

Anyway, this place is a gem, it is incredibly useful and pleasant for astophotographers.
Edited 26 Mar, 2018 09:13
carlocolombo
26 Mar, 2018 08:07
personalmente ritengo molto interessante sapere¬† come si sono ottenuti i risultati delle immagini che vengono esposte, perch√©¬† in questo modo posso sapere che livello ho raggiunto con le mie immagini, e valutare se posso fare meglio, inoltre mi rendo conto attraverso molte¬† per me nuove¬† immagini, delle assolute novit√†, che non ho mai visto,¬† mi viene anche in aiuto la strumentazione, di cui non ne conosco l'esistenza,¬† ¬†e posso sempre valutare quello che si pu√≤ fare, con diverse strumentazioni, per finire sono molto curioso, e cerco sempre nuovi soggetti da fotografare, quindi la mia opinione √® che ognuno √® libero di fare come vuole,¬† anche di far parte di ASTROBIN,¬† ma come √® giusto avr√†,…. quello che lui d'ar√†
carlocolombo
26 Mar, 2018 08:07
personalmente ritengo molto interessante sapere¬† come si sono ottenuti i risultati delle immagini che vengono esposte, perch√©¬† in questo modo posso sapere che livello ho raggiunto con le mie immagini, e valutare se posso fare meglio, inoltre mi rendo conto attraverso molte¬† per me nuove¬† immagini, delle assolute novit√†, che non ho mai visto,¬† mi viene anche in aiuto la strumentazione, di cui non ne conosco l'esistenza,¬† ¬†e posso sempre valutare quello che si pu√≤ fare, con diverse strumentazioni, per finire sono molto curioso, e cerco sempre nuovi soggetti da fotografare, quindi la mia opinione √® che ognuno √® libero di fare come vuole,¬† anche di far parte di ASTROBIN,¬† ma come √® giusto avr√†,…. quello che lui d'ar√†
dvdearden
26 Mar, 2018 16:09
I love seeing any details that are available; as many have said, one of the best things about this site is that it is data-driven, and I have learned a tremendous amount by seeing what kinds of equipment, exposures, and processing others are using. As one who is unlikely to ever get an image of the day, I don't care about that. I'm in the hobby because I enjoy it, I enjoy seeing others' beautiful work, and because I enjoy seeing my skills improve. I do like to see my index rise (and I'm not even sure why), however, so maybe extra "points" could be given for including information there.

David
WesChilton
24 Aug, 2018 15:24
This site is a community of imagers, most of whom are here to learn. Images without data details are worthless. Not sharing any acquisition details at all is being a poor member of this community. End of story.
I don’t care one bit what reasons someone has, and just because someone pays to post here doesn’t give them special rights to behave however they wish, there are already many rules, and having a minimum acquisition details standard should be one of them. Stop trying to shame people who don’t share that point of view.

Post at least minimal details (scope, camera, subs, exposure time) or just don’t post. You don’t have to write tutorials or give away your secret imaging locations or techniques.
tphelan88
24 Aug, 2018 15:37
Wes Chilton
Images without data details are worthless. Not sharing any acquisition details at all is being a poor member of this community. End of story.

Agreed Wes! We're not asking people to share their home addresses or GPS coordinates where their equipment is. There are also plenty of free image hosting services that don't require you to submit any data at all and there are free sites like Reddit.com/r/astrophotography that have waaaay stricter submission guidelines for posting images. I think a paid subscription site like AstroBin should have at a minimum a requirement on equipment and exposure time and camera settings.
carlocolombo
24 Aug, 2018 19:37
è naturale  che le fotografie astronomiche generalmente sono definite  come foto scientifiche, ora è naturale che queste immagini siano coperte dai dati informativi che spiegano di come siano state ottenute, i motivi per tale ragione sono innumerevoli, ma sopratutto  è  motivo di serietà scientifica.   c.colombo
RichAstro
24 Aug, 2018 21:11
I like details but I am fine leaving it as an option.  Forcing someone to add details may not want to contribute to this great site.
adamland
25 Aug, 2018 02:04
Has there already been a discussion in this thread about quantitatively whether this is a real problem vs a perception? Seems it would be pretty easy to look back 1 or 2 years and look at what percentage of images have the info provided. It could be looked at in buckets of IOTD, top picks, and all images. This would be a worst case analysis as often when e.g. exposure details are not filled in formally they are in the description.

I'm a casual browser of top picks and the image feed roughly every other day and my impression is that the vast vast majority of images that I click on have pretty complete info. My personal feelings about this ask aside, I think unless it is a significant problem I would rather Salvatore spend his precious time on more impactful features.
patrick.cartou
25 Aug, 2018 12:49
I believe that giving informations would be promoted, but not enforced.
I'm a bit disappointed when a nice image is not accompanied by it's history (or craft), but stay free to choose…no ?
Terry59
26 Aug, 2018 12:10
I get to pay  to put my images on here AND have people tell me how I must do it??

If this becomes mandatory I'm done here…thanks elitist control freaks
star-watcher.ch
26 Aug, 2018 14:27
I think the best solution here is to improve the search function!

Every time I'm searching for a specific object, 90% of the results are without any technical data! I stop then clicking on each image to see which one has specs… very frustrating!
If I search for an object with additional tech specs like focal length, why images appears without data? This is worthless as many said before.
Edited 26 Aug, 2018 14:28
gnomus
26 Aug, 2018 15:09
It is disappointing to see comments like ‚Äėlaziness‚Äô being directed against fellow imagers. ¬†It reminds me of the accusation (from not that long ago and probably still prevalent) that remote imagers are ‚Äėcheating‚Äô. ¬†‚ÄėPoor community member‚Äô is bordering on the sinister.

I have always taken the view that I should be grateful when folks offer free advice - be that hints and tips about processing or data acquisition. ¬†I would never dream of demanding it. ¬†And why are people demanding it, I wonder? ¬†What is it that they feel that they will gain from this information that they cannot come up with themselves? ¬†At the end of the day, there is no real ‚Äėsecret‚Äô - beyond ‚Äėgather as much data as you reasonably can‚Äô.

It might be useful to have a search filter for those who get so exorcised by this issue.

Terry makes an increasingly valid point, in my view.

I do enter ‚Äėdetails‚Äô, incidentally.
grsotnas
26 Aug, 2018 19:01
Guys, I have been a member of Astrobin community for quite some time now (almost 5 years), and would like to write here a little bit about my point of view. You have absolutely all the right to disagree with my own view - by all means that's very good - it can help finding a solution immensively. So, here is my take on equipment details [all below is my opinion]:

One of the very reasons I like AB so much is because of the sense of community - it is not only about pretty pictures, but also about sharing the technicalities you used to capture the data. I tend to prefer seeing great images with equip. and acquisition details filled in - it helps me search for targets, compare scopes, compare sky quality and analyse… it helps me know what might I be able to do with my gear. To me, that's part of the fun! To get inspired and to know what is working out for other guys. I really appreciate those who enter their details in a complete way. However, as far as the current system is, there might be some problems: there is a problem with duplicate gear database…. for that reason I understand people that do not enter their gear via the form, but rather type their information in the description. That's not ideal (I think) - as the search function is somewhat compromised - but it is a valid approach.

For myself, I always try to enter all this detail in the most complete way I can [both in the equipment form and the description]. I think it helps me and other folks that might find this information useful.

However, I absolutely do not think everyone must do things the way I prefer them to do.  Let me explain:

I think that providing accurate details (on acquisition and equipment) should be encouraged. Not their GPS location [obviously! - that is a matter of common sense to me] , but their gear and acquisition is valuable information. However, the member should do this voluntarily. Never enforced (in a punitive or coercitive way). By that I mean - the guy should be able to post their image without any details if he so wants!

I believe that prohibiting or enforcing people to do something is in almost all cases a less effective way of accomplishing results. Brute force doesn't mantain itself in any form of community based system in the long term. It might work for a while - but it will be less stable. [my opinion, again!]

SO, key takeaway: ENCOURAGE people to provide extensive details, but DO NOT FORCE them to do it. I believe most (like 99%) of astrophotographers [that've been doing this for a little while] know the value of this information and will happiply share it. Because of this  I lurked a lot on AB and was inspired even before joining here, in 2013! However, I also think there could be improveents to facilitate this sharing process - so I also present some suggestions [again, based on my own opinion on that matter]:

- Create a "Best practices" page, explaining (especially to newbies) why is it so valuable if they share their details [and perhaps even how to do it]. Knowing why you should do something and understanding the reasons behind it helps its implementation immensively;
- Upgrade and improve the gear database. I know this is a very hard task. I do not have a definite solution! But I believe Salvatore [and the other members] could think on a way to make it a little easier (perhaps in a community based approach - many members could have the power to "merge" gear and organise the database];
- Little improvements on the acquisition details form [like having the "advanced" tab as default; or user profiles so you don't have to type so many times the same thing; and for camera lenses users - a way to enter the f-stop!!!]
- A way to filter your search only to images with acquisition details filled in - so if you want only to filter the images that have information, you can.

My point is - let's make it easier and encourage everyone to post all details - also explaining why this is so beneficial, and making it as natural as possible. But not enforcing it! After all, looking up and imaging the night sky is such a gradiose, life-changing and inspiring activity!!… We all image and fiddle with so many things (and fail so many times) because we love it!!! And practically everyone is so happy to help and share basic info…… Let's enjoy it - be it under the night skies, be it in a great online community as this is!¬† smile

Best regards
Gabriel
Edited 26 Aug, 2018 19:02
rob77
26 Aug, 2018 19:39
star-watcher.ch
I think the best solution here is to improve the search function!

Exactly.
This is why I'm currently using google to search something on astrobin Lol
 
Register or login to create to post a reply.