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A good idea to have a group for those of us who struggle with light pollution. My home location is Bortle 8 in the suburbs of London UK. I do regularly go to star parties where there are darker skies, but this is very weather dependent and mostly I can't get there during the winter constellations. Will be good to share ideas here. After seeing some good results from a neighbouring town in Bortle 7 I bought myself a Hutech Idas LPS P2 filter to use instead of a luminance filter. I have only managed one image so far = M13 and the image was not filled with swirling LP gradients as is usual from Home. But then the exposures were shorter for this target, so still need to test it further. Carole |
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Hi Carole, I too am new to this group, but not new to light pollution. I purchased the Optalong L-Pro filter in two inch size about four months ago and really like how well it handles light pollution. I use it on the end of my field flatenner and have been shooting with a OSC camera. Recently, I purchased the ZWO asi1600mm-pro, but have not been able to really test it out due to weather. Hopefully soon. Greg |
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Hi Carole and Greg! Thanks for joining the group! I image from about 9 miles west of Philadelphia, PA. Some sources give my location as Bortle 8 and others as Bortle 7, so I usually say "Bortle 7.5". I've got 2 LED street lights less than 30 feet away from my scopes, and there's just no escape from the LP along the eastern seaboard of the US. There's just a gigantic light dome stretching from DC to Boston. I'd have to drive about 4.5 hours to get under dark skies, so I don't even bother and just image from home. When I first started doing AP, a lot of people told me to give up because of my sky conditions. For a while, I listened to the naysayers and did consider giving up, but then I came across another imager doing great work under similar skies. It really changed my perspective and showed me that it was possible to make some great images under difficult conditions. I decided to start this group because I've been doing a lot of broadband recently - galaxy season has always been my favorite time of the year even though my work has been mostly planetary nebulae. In December of 2018, I got an RC specifically for galaxy season, and due to getting familiar with a new scope, a camera issue and picking a target that was actually too dim for my skies, I only managed to do one galaxy shot for galaxy season. My goal this year was to do as many galaxies as I could. I'm currently running two scopes - an 8" f/3.9 Newtonian on an AZ-EQ5 with a ZWO 1600 MM-C and the 8" RC on an EQ6-R with a QHY183. So far, I've been able to finish 5 galaxy images and have four more in the works, although I'm nervous about finishing one. We had only one clear night since April 10 and the target I was most excited about is only up for 2 hours between dusk and when it hits a tree. Back on April 10, I was still planning on getting 16 hours on it. I'd be lucky to get 6 now. Still, even if that one doesn't work out, I think I'm going to have a successful galaxy season (at least compared to last year)! In my ZWO 1600, I've been using a Baader Moon & Skyglow for luminance. It's helped tremendously. For the QHY 183, I recently got a Chroma LoGlow. It seems to be doing an excellent job as well. I've also used the Orion SkyGlow Astrophotography filter for OSC imaging and I'd highly recommend that as well - I'd have used that for luminance but it's unfortunately a 2" filter. I initially stacked it in front of my RC's reducer - my lum channel looked great, but it absolutely killed the blue channel and really negatively affected my image of NGC 2903, thus I'd recommend not stacking an LP filter in front of your RGB filters if you were thinking about it. The other huge help for me has been giving a target as much integration time as possible (and giving more time to blue than green or red). I really wasn't getting the results I was looking for until I started giving each target at least 20 hours. I've still seen better images of M81 with under 3 hours, but if it takes me 36 (and I still don't see a hint of IFN) - so be it! The one target I mentioned that didn't work out for me was the Draco Triplet: I wasn't able to get the halos of the middle galaxy to show. I've learned that the more diffuse a target is, the less likely you'll be able to bring out its features. I've still been able to go down to Mag 16 when things aren't diffuse though. Thanks again for joining - I'm looking forward to seeing your images in this group. Clear skies! Chris |
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Thanks Chris! My main scope is the astrotech at8in at f4 newt so very much like your 8" f3. 9. I also use, but not recently, is an astrotech at72ed refractor at f6 for wide field, an Orion old standard...the ED 80 f7.5, and two 8" sct's. Living in Stafford, Virginia I know what you mean about east coast light pollution. I'm about 20 miles south of DC, but only 1.5 mile from the heart of Stafford's business malls. I like the idea of 20 hour targets, but find that unreasonable for me. Now with my new asi1600mm-pro camera, I'm sure I will come close to that number on narrowband targets. My SBIG stf8300c OSC camera allowed most of my images to stay under four hours. Wishing us all clear skies soon. Greg |
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Hi just joined this group. Great idea to see what we can do under bad sky. I bought a Optlong L-Pro filter too and I use it in front of my filterwheel (LRGB filter) with my Atik One CCD camera. I image from Toulon France, a half million people area. Here is my location (revision B for light polution map) https://astrob.in/319888/0/ Régis |
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Some good ideas here, yes it seems that getting as much data as possible is good for LP locations, but sometimes my images as so bad from Bortle 8 I just give them up as a complete waste of time. I use Atik mono CCD cameras and have a dual rig which I often use when I go to my campsite to try to gather as much data as possible while I am there. So with 3 different scopes and 2 cameras I can interchange them and get varying FOVs, but can only use the dual rig in one combination. Narrowband works well on the brighter targets, but I see that this forum is called Broadband from Bortle 7/8/9, so probably not applicable. You might be interested to see a website I set up for images I have done from Bortle 8 - this is to separate them from my main website which has images done both at Home Bortle 8 and also those I manage to get at a campsite Bortle 4 about 1 hours drive from home. https://sites.google.com/view/carastroimaging/home Carole |
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| As with Chris, depending on the site, I am either in a 7 or 8, so I usually list as 7. I am in Allentown, PA, about 50 miles north of Philly, 90 West of NYC. I do almost all of my imaging from my backyard. This is my first real Galaxy season, so I am just learning, and I am just now getting comfortable with my ZWO ASI183. If you look at my images, I did a comparison of the Sunflower Galaxy using the ZWO ASI1600 vs the ZWO ASI183. |
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Greg: Why is 20 hours unreasonable? I admit it can get taxing - I did get really tired of shooting M81/M82 earlier this year. I'm also really into faint planetaries, so I've given two targets over 60 hours to date. Due to the obstructions where I live, I can usually only get 3-4 hours on a target in one night, so a project like that can become a two-month long affair. Still: I wouldn't want to do it any other way. Those projects have been some of my best work (including my first IOTD). And although the M81/M82 that I finally finished in April was a pain, I was really happy with the end result - I think it made it worth it. (It also *really* blew up on Instagram - that's not why I'm doing this, of course, but I do think it's cool when my work reaches a wide audience). Your Elephant Trunk was 8 hours - do you think you could double your next broadband target and give it 15-16 hours as an experiment? Carole: That's really great that you can reach a Bortle 4 location in an hour. I'm not sure I'd image from home if I could do that. On the other hand: Your work from home is really impressive!! I'm currently trying to do the M64 from home as well. I just need to get a clear night. Hi Warren! Fancy seeing you here!  |
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New to this group and new to AP in general. I'm under Bortle 8 skies as a best estimate. But I definitely have darker skies to my south than to my north so I try to image in that direction if I can. Hoping to learn as much as I can from the rest of you! Chris - does the Moon & Skyglow filter fit in the ZWO filter wheel? If not, where does it go in the imaging chain? |
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Hi all, I take all of my pictures from my balcony in downtown Turin, Italy. According to the Clear Outside app mine is a Bortle 9 site with a 17.6-17.8 sqm. The estimate is perhaps a bit pessimistic because a couple of time I was able to barely perceive a fifth magnitude star at the zenith, however the situation is often worse, depending on many lights my neighbours turn on. As cameras I use both a Canon EOS 1300D and a ZWO ASI 178MM, both with UHC filters when dealing with nebulas, but not for galaxies or star clusters. I like to image from my balcony because I can do it every time the sky allows it and I do not have other appointments. That allows me to live the hobby with a continuity that would be impossible to have if I had to move under darker sky, also because I like comforts. So taking pictures from town is for me a personal challenge to the usual commonplace that you have to move under dark skies to "see something", provided that you accept to see it on a monitor after some processing. |
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| Chris, not meaning to offend, but as I said, 20 hours is unreasonable for me shooting with a OSC. With my new setup, it would very likely happen for narrowband targets. I just don't have the skies or the patience yet. Not anyone's fault but mine. You mentioned my Elephant's trunk image that I put about eight hours into...yeah, it could use more time and much better processing. I was not very happy with that image, but it moved out of my field of view so it will have to wait. |
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Welcome, Régis, Timothy and Altazastro! Bortle 9 seems unimaginably tough to me - so hats off to you! Greg: I think that image is great! I've actually been thinking about coming back to that target this year and doing something closer to RGB. I really messed up with my capture the first time around - I had moved my guide scope way out of my field and so my first few nights on it were completely wasted. I only got a couple of hours on it before heading to Europe for a month. In November of 2017, I took out my (very neglected) refractor and put it through its paces for the first time since owning it. I couldn't get any decent images out of it and tried everything - a field flattener, endless hours placing with spacing, even replacing the focuser. Eventually with the help of ES, we figured out that the objective had been loose. While I waited for that to be replaced, I took out my OSC on my Newt and did three targets as part of a 'speed run' - I stopped as soon as I got that scope replaced. Only two of three came out okay - the Cocoon Nebula and the Skull Nebula. Thankfully, both of them are pretty bright. The third target actually ended up getting the most time at 8 hours: NGC 2403. I never published it since I just couldn't get anything decent. I think it would have ended up okay if I could have doubled that time. But I'm now a big believer in luminance layering for galaxies (I don't do it for nebulae though - maybe I would for reflection or dark nebulae if I can, but I worry my light pollution is too heavy for those kinds of targets). I should also mention that I gave that target a ton of time this past November/December, and I'm not happy with that one either. I've reprocessed it from scratch twice already and just hate the colors. Some targets are just tough! |
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New to this group and new to AP in general. I'm under Bortle 8 skies as a best estimate. But I definitely have darker skies to my south than to my north so I try to image in that direction if I can. Hoping to learn as much as I can from the rest of you!Chris - does the Moon & Skyglow filter fit in the ZWO filter wheel? If not, where does it go in the imaging chain? Sorry - forgot to answer that one! The Baader Moon & Skyglow fits in the filter wheel. The Chroma filter didn't at first - I had to borrow the filter housing from my ZWO luminance filter to get that one to fit. |
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Chris Sullivan: Thanks for the info, Chris. I think I'll place an order for the Baader Moon & Skyglow filter. Seems like the only clear nights I get around here are ones with a near full moon! I actually had a clear night last night and I started on what will be my first multi-night project, M101 - the Pinwheel Galaxy. As far as the forecast is concerned, my next clear night will be in about a week with a 3/4 moon. |
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Carole, did you happen to watch the Astro Imaging channel last night or see it on youtube? If not, I recommend you checking it out as it had a bunch of information with regard to imaging in London as opposed to imaging in either Houston or New York here in the US. Greg |
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Greg Ray: I didn't do you have a link to it? Thanks Carole |
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| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFHpCU4zL3E |
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Thanks for the link I will take a look at it. Carole |
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Chris Sullivan:  Chris, I live in Philly and this spot is only 1hr or so from me so probably a little closer for you. French Creek State Park. The spot I have circled has a parking lot, bathroom, concrete pad and bench. Can't beat that!! |
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Why didn't i post in this topic before? Well, i live in light pollution sky as well, i really don't know if it is 7 or 8 or 9, whatever it is definitely LP, almost all houses around with LED lights, and my house is away from street light with LED about 150meter, so i try to survive under that, and i keep trying to see if i can get nice results anyway. |
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Chris Sullivan: I don't know how I missed this comment back in May. But you are right, I don't bother to image during the summer months from home, but I am pretty much stuck at home during the winter months due to the weather and ground conditions at the campsite in the Bortle 4 location. I have been pulled out of the campsite by the tractor on more than one occasion - and that wasn't in the worst of the winter - Lol. Also trying to co-ordinate the clear skies with the Moon Phases and getting down there is not always easy. Was hoping to go next weekend or the one after, but the forecast is not looking good, so I guess I will be stuck in Bortle 8 until the Spring now.  Carole |
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| A bit late to the party but here I am in sunny Solihull, with its 100,000 inhabitants, Birmingham (1m+) to the north, the Jaguar Land Rover plant immediately to the south, and Birmingham International airport to the east, so earning every drop of my bortle 8. However I feel like I am pulling away from the neigh sayers and starting to get broadband images that I am happy with, using a budget rig (SW 200PDS for galaxy season and modded DSLR) that I am happy with - and a lot of subs! Oh and my secret weapon the IDAS LP D2, brutal but effective - I can at least do 2 minute subs that are around about the right exposure for high objects, 60-90 secs for those in the party lights lower down. You do have to add most of the red back in post processing as not much gets through the filter. 8) |
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Wow, you really are hemmed in with LP Phil, glad you are overcoming the difficulties. Carole |
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Hi all, a great idea for a group, I thought I was the only one stupid enough to invest ‘000’s on equipment under LP skies but clearly not ;) I live 3 miles east of Liverpool UK with Bortle 8, the weather in the NW of England also fights against me with only around 15% of nights clear enough to image that includes nights with the moon present too. I bought a TS ONTC 12” last year with a cf tube and I’m loving it, keeps focus so much better than my old 14” in an Al tube, I have an Atik 383L mono and use it binned 2x2. I’ve had advice from Chris which has been very useful, the tough realisation is the need to give many hours of integration to get the best results. Retirement next year should help me get longer integrations 8) I will invest in an Optolong L-Pro as a few of you recommend it. Clear skies, Rob |
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| Welcome Rob to the 6hr+ integration group! Automation and a cover has helped me get those longer integrations even with a job and a young family. |
