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I agree

45,000 LEO Internet Satellites in Your Way by 2025

Stef
31 Dec, 2019 15:42
I don't know if the astrobin / astrophotographer community may do something, but probably any initiative is important.
If anyone here may post images showing starlink trails, it helps.

Iin my opinion only the IAU may have a chance to do something.
https://www.iau.org/news/announcements/detail/ann19035/
as well as the asttronomical US community.(since starlink is a US company and a major concern for professionnal survey programs, ( LSST, ASAS SN)

The IDA published a statement https://www.darksky.org/why-do-mega-constellations-matter-to-the-dark-sky-community/
and you may share your concerns here  : https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScoeWIIMh9WH-hEbi9eYQCavt8aO_CUDzDFAsY2-FGABPTiXg/viewform
before Jan 6th

The AAS will then have a special session on Jan 8th, https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/8993/session/133

The ESO annoucement 19062
https://www.eso.org/public/announcements/ann19062/
will try to address the problem with the AAS and IAU, the intention is probably to get the UN involved

Then,  share your images on social networks, and tag or send to ESO, IAU, IDA, AAS as well as  your national astronomical organisations (amateur or professional) and have them involved.

#stopstarlink
McComas
31 Dec, 2019 17:42
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/28/17906158/nasa-spacex-oneweb-satellite-large-constellations-orbital-debris

https://www.change.org/p/stop-spacex-starlink-from-spoiling-outer-space-for-humanity
Edited 31 Dec, 2019 17:46
Mag
31 Dec, 2019 19:14
Is it a loophole or open violation of the Five International Space Law Treaties
(unoosa.org)? The treaty was signed and ratified into force by the US and another 108 countries 10 October 1967.

The fact the satellites cannot hide will be their ultimate demise.

Liability is also built into these regulations.

The Internet operational aspect seems destined to backfire for all the reasons we have brought up here. The concern is that near term launches will not be stopped in time, and the aftermath leaves us stuck with abandoned space junk.

There will come the "aha!" moment when it becomes noticed by the general population of the world with the information it is a long term / permanent condition. Then it stops. Perhaps it is an advantage that they cannot hide.

We can continue to educate the populace and bring pressure to bear to move up this realization and save launches.

Right now we are seen as just another nuisance group of myopic crackpots that will soon go away.

We must rise above and be reckoned with.

We must be uncommon.
Edited 31 Dec, 2019 19:29
markplym
01 Jan, 2020 09:15
I have signed the petition and trying to get others in our astronomical society to sign as well smile
carastro
01 Jan, 2020 15:43
I've just E mailed:

Andrew Williams
ESO External Relations Officer on the link provided above and pointed him towards this thread.

Anything is worth a try.

Carole
Mag
01 Jan, 2020 18:57
I sent a message to Neil deGrasse Tyson about it on the low chance it gets processed.

Surely he is aware anyway and has embraced the cause as an associate of The American Museum of Natural History.

I will continue attempts to get organizational signators of those affected.
Mag
01 Jan, 2020 20:39
I sent the petition and orienting information to Anna Sidorenko of UNESCO. She is part of the astronomy branch of UNESCO.
Edited 01 Jan, 2020 20:40
eigenVector
02 Jan, 2020 04:25
> Anyone interested in fighting back against skies covered with more satellites than stars for no reason than market control of 3 billion people?

No… My biggest problem is night time clouds and the moon… Can we get rid of those first? Rejection algorithms do wonders on satellites, but I can't for the life of me reject clouds.  smile
Deep_Sky
03 Jan, 2020 15:31
Petition signed…I will forward it to all my friends in astronomical group also…thats a really nightmare !! "Chronicle of a tragedy foretold" …  smile
skyhook
03 Jan, 2020 15:48
Signed as well, and good to see which Problems are there for Astronomers and beginners  like me.
Difficult is IMHO all the trash we produce around our Planet.
For those who dont know stuff in space, here is the link:  http://www.stuffin.space/

As i read it before here in this Thread, one of the greatest signs of human stupidity visible for all
And, these Objects are not all, how much smaller pieces around, is not known and invisible for us.
Mag
03 Jan, 2020 23:53
Thanks!

History often shows the general public not reacting until a crisis is reached. The new tabloid astronomy is pitching a farsical asteroid threat almost daily, among other things, desensitizing real issues affecting their lives. Some are, practically speaking, irreversible.

Even among us, how many are even aware of this impending practical termination of the natural night sky? Yet the forum topic rates somewhere around a lens scratch (more accurately, 45,000…..).

Most people, upon stumbling across the truth, pickup and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
Edited 03 Jan, 2020 23:55
Mag
04 Jan, 2020 00:17
Clouds? Move.  Good areas, narrow band filters, and moon calendars still available.

Everyone in on the digital eraser cover up team?
Edited 04 Jan, 2020 00:22
Magellen
04 Jan, 2020 09:46
Signed as well
bclary
04 Jan, 2020 17:47
To see the enormity of the problem, goto  http://celestrak.com and click on the real-time CelesTrak Orbit Visualization.  From there you can see all of the satellites in orbit, debris or otherwise.  You can also filter to see just the ones put up recently (Starlink)…
khrrugh
05 Jan, 2020 01:23
Thanks for the link, Brian. Now that is impressive - in a not so positive way… *sigh* I also signed the two petitions mentioned in this thread, but i doubt that these petitions will change anything  smile
Dennys_T
05 Jan, 2020 17:21
Also signed it  an shared on a FB astro channel.
fornaxtwo
06 Jan, 2020 13:39
Signed and shared on Twitter
carastro
06 Jan, 2020 16:18
The petition was 512 when I first posted the link, it is now 609, so nearly a 100 have signed in the last week.  Keep signing and getting your astro friends (and any-one else for that matter) to sign.

Carole
carastro
07 Jan, 2020 09:40
Apparently another 60 satellites went up yesterday!!!!

Carole
carastro
14 Jan, 2020 15:39
I have had the following reply back from ESA:

Thanks for getting in touch about this issue. The topic is really active now, with many groups (ESO, AAS, RAS, IAU etc) involved, and in particular the Vera Rubin Observatory (aka LSST), which will be most affected from the optical contamination.  I’d be happy to talk by phone / skype if you want to brainstorm some ideas on how to take some actions forward with respect to the amateur astronomy community.
Let me know a good time for you.

Best regards, Andy
 
Dr. Andy Williams
External Relations Officer, Executive Office of the Director General
European Southern Observatory (ESO), Karl-Schwarzschild-Str. 2, 85748 Garching, Germany
Phone: +49-(0)89-3200-6278 | Mobile: +49-(0)151 4143 5065
Email: awilliam@eso.org

I am going to see what we can come up with.

Carole
Edited 14 Jan, 2020 15:43
khrrugh
15 Jan, 2020 11:50
Great news, Carole!
Marzo.Varea
15 Jan, 2020 16:00
Randall Magnuson
There are many responsible satellite builders with functional and tested de-orbit strategies backed by insurance should they affect third party operations. It's the law. […]

From starlink.com:
Starlink is on the leading edge of on-orbit debris mitigation, meeting or exceeding all regulatory and industry standards.
At end of life, the satellites will utilize their on-board propulsion system to deorbit over the course of a few months. In the unlikely event
the propulsion system becomes inoperable, the satellites will burn up
in Earth’s atmosphere within 1-5 years, significantly less than the
hundreds or thousands of years required at higher altitudes.
carastro
15 Jan, 2020 18:37
We're having a Skype call tomorrow.  Will feedback results.

Carole
udeuterm
16 Jan, 2020 01:32
Signed the petition but I fear that we won't be enough. Great that some of you got in contact with people of slightly more impact, but if money is one of the topics, it usually wins! Let;s cross some (many) fingers!
carastro
16 Jan, 2020 13:23
OK, I have had my Skype conversation with Andrew Williams at ESO (European Southern Observatory which runs the huge Telescope in the Atacama).
He says because they are government funding as a body they can't make too much noise about it, but they are going to as individuals sign the petition.

He says that they have been in contact with Space Ex who have put one satellite up with non reflective coating, as an experiment, but apparently that can cause it to overheat, so no guarantee this is going to be a solution.  The satelittes are going into LEO 250kms initially and will probably end up at 500kms, so less visible visually, but of course makes a lot of difference to long exposure.

We discussed the effect this will have on our hobby, the wasted money on Equipment if it can't be used any more, or re-sold because no-one else is going to want to buy it.

We discussed the Retailers and manufacturers who will be affected/go out of business with lack of sales.
Also the Remote observatories who might also lose/go out of business, and the places that host visitors for Astronomy such as the Place in Namibia,  Olly Penrice's place in France, and  AstroFarm ect etc.

It was suggested that we all write to our MPs, sign petitions, contact other astronomers, and forums and All the Retailers that might be affected.  he felt the loss of business was likely to have the most impact.  Also post the petition and ideas on other forums around the world and enlist help and petition support.

I don't have a comprehensive list of all this, so perhaps if we club together we can contact as many as possible and each let us know who they have done.

I am not sure how this can be achieved, so I might contact Salvatore to find out how we can have a thread with page that can be added to and ticked, rather than a long thread.

Watch this space (literally), in the meantime please add any Retailers and businesses you think might be affected.

I will start with the following I am sure there are loads of other (please copy and paste the list and add any new ones until be find a better method)

Retailers Manufacturers:

Skywatcher
Orion
Celestron
Teleskop service
Atik
Baader

UK Retailers:
First Light Optics
Modern Astronomy
365 Astronomy
Rother Valley Optics
The Widescreen Centre
Altair Astro

Image Hosting Sites and holiday places:
E Eye in Spain
Deep sky West
Les Granges Astronomy Centre in France
Astrofarm

Other forums:
Cloudy Nights
Ice In Space
Astronomy Forum
Star Gazers Lounge (I've already put the petition on there)

What about APOD?

Let me know your thoughts and if you're happy to Spread the word.

Carole
Edited 16 Jan, 2020 14:29
 
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