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Anyone interested in fighting back against skies covered with more satellites than stars for no reason than market control of 3 billion people? Are we just going to let this slide with the politically correct apathy that produced this? When most or all of your subs have "constellations" of streaks in them, will a workaround to remove them be ok? Quick, what are the orbits? A new astro destination business "out of the artificial constellation belt?" Got a stopwatch for timing your "sub window?" There are no propellant systems on the satellites or other means to remove them. There is not even the consideration to paint them non-reflective. I suggest we ally with professional and academic opposition to this irreversible change to the very structure of Earth's skies before it becomes mankinds most visible and irreversible monument to stupidity yet devised, while the shortsighted people below with their eyes on a screen continue to revel in ignorance. Terrestrial Internet services are faster and cheaper than satellites, the physics of distance always making this so. It has nothing to do with your service improvement, but adds another three billion addresses to Amazon. I suggest we start with a list of corporations owning these satellites and make them public. Publicize the motive and kill this the only way that produces results to Robber Barons: FINANCIALLY. Can we put up Stellarium and such to model these orbits now and update every existing working copy? Perhaps light pollution renders it all a moot point. Who will even notice? In my opinion there is far more at stake. Think Americans are hated now, wait until it has the gall to change the skies over every nation on Earth. |
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I think its too late to do anything about it now...  |
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This is not a white flag poll. If the number is 45,000 then 44,940 remain on the ground. It cannot be stressed how important this is. A light net engulfing Earth. An unprecedented imperialistic folly. One of the likely outcomes of this is financial failure, leaving a bunch of junk in space that becomes a taxpayer liability to cleanup. SpaceX is some 30 billion in the hole from development costs and is teetering on solvency. This is one of their financial recovery plans. Let's hear what can be done now, and how. Some thoughts: - who in the Federal legislatures are opposing this. - how do we support professional astronomers. - WHO in the FCC were bought off on this. - support the UN and countries reactions on getting this stuffed down their throats. - support plans to shoot this debris out of the sky and also the French "space garbage truck." |
8.04
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I agree, let's try to do something about it. I don't know what but we must be the biggest international Astrophotography community on the planet. We could start a huge petition, which will probably be ignored, but it's a start. Any-one have contacts in the professional world to let them know? I think it's disgraceful that they can do this and mess up Astronomy for the whole world, and what other repercussions are going to occur? Did they get permission, and if so from who? Carole |
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Great idea, Carole! If we can't do it then who else? You point out our power as a world organization. If this satellite "cluster %#$!" succeeds, Astrobin and the entire associated industries are challenged. Let me know what I can do to support. My point is to open up a multi-front attack. We have got to put this ultimate form of space landfill in front of the world's eyes. |
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Lets gather ideas on this thread, and does any-one know how to start off a world wide petition. Then point the professional institutions to it. All of our £1000s $1000s of astro-photography equipment will become redundant and unsellable, is he going to compensate us all for that? No he isn't? Our hobby will be destroyed. Carole |
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Looks like there is already a petition, lets all sign it. https://secure.avaaz.org/en/community_petitions/SpaceEx_Starlink_Fifty_thousand_telecom_satellites_will_make_astronomy_impossible/?aVIigpb&newuser=1 Carole |
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Signed that. Thanks Carole for the link. I was enjoying a great view of the stars last night from a dark sky reserve when i spotted the satellites rising in single file. My heart sank, they're insanely bright. |
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| I signed as well Carole, I had to throw out images already with satellites in them, can't imagine the future. |
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I signed as well. Evidence enclosed: ( description https://www.astrobin.com/407481/0/ ) |
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Great evidence here thanks to everyone. The future looks quite bleak indeed. It will take increasing luck to image anything at all. It appears a certainty that the skies we have known will cease to exist in two years. Efforts will have to continue on to remove the debris. I have no doubt we will be a player in mobilizing what will be an international uprising. When this blight is removed, people will say THIS was our finest hour. |
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| Surely directly threatened businesses such as Astrobin and sponsors will become corporate signators to this petition if not already. |
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This is the second one I have signed. Niall MacNeill shared one on Facebook that I signed a few weeks ago, it was a different one but we MUST do something now. If there are more out there to sign, count me in!! We buy a LOT of gear from a lot of companies, we need to get them involved as well. |
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| I signed it and about a month ago, I asked for the same support from The Planetary Society of which I am a member. They said they would discuss and get back to me. |
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| Agree we must make a noise about this! I have signed the petition |
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Every national park's nightime sky will resemble a dense forest of tracer fire as if in a war zone. Operation Shock and Awful is underway. The gift of the National Park system to citizens is compromised. Teddy Roosevelt would and did have ready actions in response to threats of the day. He is turning over in his grave at a corrupt administration under active threat of impeachment, devoid of a functional judicial branch and antitrust laws. Ma-X rides anew. Celestial Holocaust is not too strong a description. |
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In addition to signing, power up by posting the petition on your social media page. It's easy and built into the petition. The power of the economics of this is ours to deliver. There are already almost 600 signatures on the petition. If each represents a conservative figure of $1000 in purchases a year, terminating the perpetrators results in over a half million dollars in revenue. Perhaps a "withdrawal slip" can be sent to SpaceX and Amazon for one million dollars for each 1000 signatures generated. "It's us." |
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Networking this petition with photographic proof and "hit between the eyes" terms based on defensible information should expect a million signatures in a month. Aim high and hit the lights in the sky. This is on the precipice of deservedly going viral if anything ever was. And how about that BILLION dollar withdrawal slip! Big numbers are a piece of cake for Astrobin members. " ........so that government of the people, for the people, and by the people, shall not perish from the face of the Earth." |
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Randall Magnuson: I would personally use more care/discretion in describing things as a holocaust. -Sigga |
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You are also personally welcome to use any term you wish, and I will defend your right to do so by screaming from the top of my lungs if I personally agree or not. This is called free speech, and your unconditional participation in everyone's guaranteed-in-writing right to it is highly valued. My point is that IMPACT is required. To illicit any response is the uniting factor. That will be as different as each individual. "Excuse me stars" and "nebula on the forty yard line" would likely be found in the recycle bin. |
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| An inconvenient and likely solvable problem for my hobby. |
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Good point! If the solution were required to be mapped out precisely and guaranteed in advance, difficult problems would never be undertaken. |
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There are many responsible satellite builders with functional and tested de-orbit strategies backed by insurance should they affect third party operations. It's the law. See the Kessler Effect. The number of non-recoverable satellites adds high certainty of a debris cloud / obstacle course affecting the safety of future human spaceflight. No one questions the need for satellites. But using tens-of-thousands of them to replace an existing superior terrestrial system is not responsible. But how easy to cross international borders without the bother of the rights of sovereign states. Being blindsided with, relatively speaking, overnight FCC launch approvals, accompanied with "we'll figure out the rest later" is no accidental strategy. Add in the discarding of the Internet Neutrality Act........ SpaceX bets a world so happy with their product that non-compliance will be overlooked. |
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You cannot frame this issue as "satellites" vs "hobby". It is a problem for all astronomy, scientific astronomy. It is a huge problem for space junk and agglomeration (https://www.cnet.com/news/esa-spacex-starlink-satellite-nearly-collides-with-european-aeolus-satellite/). It is a problem for ground based observation and professional astronomy(https://twitter.com/89Marvaz/status/1196356715270291456). The problem is that this is not regulated, Tesla had talks with Astronomical societies, but as far as I know they did not decrease the luminosity of their satellites. Any petition should emphasize the importance of the dark sky for humanity, science and fauna (light pollution is an ecological issue). If we declare some mountains or natural places protected, UNESCO heritage sites, how come the sky can be the playground of one company or a few companies only interested in increasing their profits and controlling internet traffic? The sky belongs to all. Starlink and the LEO satellites to follow will affect everyone, not only people living around Tesla's headquarters. |
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| https://www.astrobin.com/groups/161/ |
