EAA arrives on Astrobin Electronically-Assisted Astronomy (EAA) · Bruce Donzanti · ... · 49 · 3532 · 2

TeleTraveler
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I just Joined AstroBin this my first post and am happy to see an EAA presence here.  I got back into astronomy after a 50 year hiatus and discovered EAA a couple of years ago. I still enjoy Visual but am fascinated with what you can do with EAA especially in my Bortle 7 backyard.  It’s a funny thing that when I talk with veteran Astronomers and mention EAA they don’t know what I am talking about and on Cloudy Nights some individuals are downright hostile toward it.
Go figure...
Anyway glad to be here
Cheers

Stewart
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gdornier 0.00
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Thanks for clarifying the whole thing. I was initially confused by that option but it now makes more sense. 👍
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tommyr 1.20
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I'm new to Astrobin but wanted to chime in. I think EAA is a great thing. As we get older the old eyes aren't that great at seeing things in the eyepiece any more. I'm almost 62 years old and find it's getting a harder to see well with eyepieces. Being able to see deep sky objects in mere seconds on a laptop screen really allows us to continue enjoying this great hobby into our later years. It also makes being able to share the deep sky with others VERY easy. Great for outreach of course.

Normal astrophotography is great but not everyone wants to get THAT involved in it. For some money is an issue. For others it's too much work. For me it's really interesting but let's face it, the best astrophotos have already been taken. In every conceivable way. I have no interest in trying to be "the best" at it, it's not really possible. It's already been done. Many time before. You people take some amazing photos that's for sure.

There's nothing to be confused about here, EAA is live image stacking for viewing immediately. Live. Everything else is traditional Astrophotography. What's to be confused about? Keep taking those amazing photos, it's all good!

Tom
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astropical
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Hello Tom,
Wholeheartedly agreed :-)
Have you seen this:
https://unistellaroptics.com/
Cheers
Robert

Oops, and this one:
https://www.galactic-hunter.com/post/stellina_review
Edited ...
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GW 0.00
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Marc, I think you just hit the nail on the head. EAA or however you want to name it opens a door way for a lot of people to observe deep sky object quickly. This in my opinion is a very good thing.  The new ZWO ASI Air has a new live stacking feature and it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I think a lot of confusion has arisen due to the use of the word "Electronically". From what I know most of astrophotography is now electronic.

All the best,

GW

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tommyr 1.20
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Hello Tom,Wholeheartedly agreed :-)
Have you seen this:
https://unistellaroptics.com/
Cheers
Robert

Oops, and this one:
https://www.galactic-hunter.com/post/stellina_review
\

Not only have I seen the evscope, I have one. It's pretty neat to be able to set up and start seeing deep sky in about 5 minutes.

https://i.imgur.com/eDtpNSk.png

They work pretty well. That said, better quality EAA is done with traditional equipment.  at least until this newest tech improves which I believe it will.
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nexusjeep 0.00
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·  2 likes
I think EAA is one of those terms that will always be up for debate, I do varying length exposures using SharpCap and use the live stack feature with Flat / Dark calibration frames for the live view but then SharpCap also saves the raw unprocessed frames.  These are then processed later with full calibration data via APP and Photoshop CS in my case.

I use the live stack over the course of the evening to watch the live view of the stack build up on the screen and although I am generally using minutes for the exposure this is still a stacked view and I have tagged my images as EAA as they are definitely electronically assisted as the ASI1600MMpro or ASI2600MCpro cameras are electronic, I have a computer controlled mount and guiding setup + a PC running everything with stellarium / plate solving etc so definitely electronic    and if using the 1600mm pro I am using narrow band filters so have to combine afterwards to get colour images but the detail in the live view for each filter is stunning as they build over the course of the evening.

If I have friends or relatives children round to look at the sky then I do use the short exposure high frame stack approach but also have the gain ramped up as well or they will definitely lose interest quite quickly but in that case I am not saving the image but would still class everything as EAA.

The reason for moving to EAA or what ever it ends up being called was that my father was taken seriously ill 3 years ago so could no longer stand outside in the cold to look at the sky and EAA has given us back the ability to do this.   So by whatever name we call it I think the secret is just to enjoy the views regardless of the collection technique / method / current naming convention.

Cheers
Nick
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tommyr 1.20
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Nick Davis:
The reason for moving to EAA or what ever it ends up being called was that my father was taken seriously ill 3 years ago so could no longer stand outside in the cold to look at the sky and EAA has given us back the ability to do this.   So by whatever name we call it I think the secret is just to enjoy the views regardless of the collection technique / method / current naming convention.

Cheers
Nick


Another great reason for EAA Nick. EAA has sort of become the defacto name for it in all the astronomy forums and elsewhere online, I'm fine with that personally.
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astropical
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Tommy:
Hello Tom,Wholeheartedly agreed :-)Have you seen this:
https://unistellaroptics.com/
Cheers
Robert

Oops, and this one:
https://www.galactic-hunter.com/post/stellina_review
\

Not only have I seen the evscope, I have one. It's pretty neat to be able to set up and start seeing deep sky in about 5 minutes.

https://i.imgur.com/eDtpNSk.png

They work pretty well. That said, better quality EAA is done with traditional equipment.  at least until this newest tech improves which I believe it will.


Hahaha, even better :-)
Hope to see a few shots here.
I do agree that this trend will further develop.
Cheers
Robert
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tommyr 1.20
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·  1 like
Tommy:
Hello Tom,Wholeheartedly agreed :-)Have you seen this:https://unistellaroptics.com/
Cheers
Robert

Oops, and this one:
https://www.galactic-hunter.com/post/stellina_review
\

Not only have I seen the evscope, I have one. It's pretty neat to be able to set up and start seeing deep sky in about 5 minutes.

https://i.imgur.com/eDtpNSk.png

They work pretty well. That said, better quality EAA is done with traditional equipment.  at least until this newest tech improves which I believe it will.


Hahaha, even better :-)
Hope to see a few shots here.
I do agree that this trend will further develop.
Cheers
Robert


Here's an example from my evscope. 
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ODRedwine 1.51
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IMHO,   EAA is real time observing using live stacking, live auto-stretching, and/or image intensifiers.   Once you open Pix, or DSS you are doing traditional Astrophotography.

  The difference is important to me because I plan to eventually start a STEM/Outreach program, and that will require EAA skills and equipment.  Traditional Astrophotography is a bit boring to watch.
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grkuntzmd 1.20
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·  4 likes
As I see it, when I'm doing astrophotography and someone asks if they can take look, I have to tell them, "Well, no. I don't have an eyepiece on the telescope and the images need to be post-processed before they'll be ready for viewing. I'll send you a link tomorrow when they are done."

When I'm doing EAA, with my ASIair Pro and iPad and I'm asked the same question, I say, "Well, instead of an eyepiece on the telescope, I have a camera connected to a computer that displays the images in real-time. Here take a look at my iPad. That's what the telescope is aimed at right now."
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jhayes_tucson 22.26
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There is almost nothing like viewing an object through an eyepiece at a telescope, but for most folks, a through-the-eyepiece view of almost all DSOs is so anti-climactic that they quickly lose interest in the whole thing.  So, I totally get the idea of using a camera to create a "live-view" of a faint object.  Heck, that's one reason that I got into AP in the first place.  Once I realized how much more I could see with my long-exposure images, I haven't had an eyepiece on a telescope for years.  In fact, I have a new 20" telescope sitting in my shop that I've never even looked though!  I think that EAA is a great way to observe faint object out under the stars--live!  Heck, my kids might have even joined me in exploring the sky if I had introduced them to it through EAA, but after a few views of faint-fuzzies that they could barely make out in the eyepiece, they quickly lost interest.

Salvatore's vision of bringing EAA into AB is great; although I'm not quite sure how it's going to manifest itself on a site built for displaying images.  Either way, I like the idea of growing inclusion, which is almost always a good thing.

John


PS. I'm planning to add a wide-field, EAA-like sky monitor to my remote 20" telescope destined for Chile.  One thing that's really hard when operating a remote scope is to know the sky conditions where the scope is pointed.  The remote observatories often have sky monitoring cameras but they are never very good.  Having my own wide-field sky monitor pointed in the same direction as the scope fixes that problem.  I'm still working out how it's going to operate but it will use a ASI-1600MM-cool camera with a standard wide field photographic lens.
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umasscrew39 12.53
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John Hayes:
There is almost nothing like viewing an object through an eyepiece at a telescope, but for most folks, a through-the-eyepiece view of almost all DSOs is so anti-climactic that they quickly lose interest in the whole thing.  So, I totally get the idea of using a camera to create a "live-view" of a faint object.  Heck, that's one reason that I got into AP in the first place.  Once I realized how much more I could see with my long-exposure images, I haven't had an eyepiece on a telescope for years.  In fact, I have a new 20" telescope sitting in my shop that I've never even looked though!  I think that EAA is a great way to observe faint object out under the stars--live!  Heck, my kids might have even joined me in exploring the sky if I had introduced them to it through EAA, but after a few views of faint-fuzzies that they could barely make out in the eyepiece, they quickly lost interest.

Salvatore's vision of bringing EAA into AB is great; although I'm not quite sure how it's going to manifest itself on a site built for displaying images.  Either way, I like the idea of growing inclusion, which is almost always a good thing.

John

Hi John

Actually, I sold Salvatore on the idea over several emails and he then checked it out on his own.   Thanks to his open mind, he accepted my proposal and some folks are contributing to it.  EAA is how I got started exploring the heavens after a short period of using an EP.  I've now been dabbling the past 2 years in AP but EAA is a blast with friends over or at an outreach.  As a former educator, using EAA to teach kids and adults is a lot of fun.
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Charly 0.00
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Hello, I take pictures with the EEA Sharpcap Pro and I am enthusiastic
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TimH
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My twopenny worth

As a Sharpcap user who always uses live stacking I would judge that I always do EAA -- and that is a good part of the enjoyment.   It is not only rewarding in its own right to watch the pictures gradually improve -  but also useful for on the fly updates about what if anything may be or need actively changing should you also want to capture the same frames for a more thorough astrophotgraphy approach.

Just capturing the stretched Sharpcap livestacks as is (e.g as just .PNGs)  and then  no further processing then I'd call those true EEA images because they reflect what you can realistically see 'live'  -- over say 30 min -  which I think is quite a useful and entertaining picture to see in its own right.

I don't agree though that lucky imaging and EEA are synonymous in any way.  Where it can be applied, lucky imaging makes good astrophotographic sense and is a tool in its own right  that provides a way of potentially seeing sharper detail - lower FWHMs -  in in objects or parts of objects that are bright enough that short exposures can still provide adequate SNR. Converslely EEA exposures can still be quite long but the resulting stack  still qualify as an EEA picture in my view  --- I think that often the exposure length limitation on EEA more frequently comes about because EEA is often carried out - indeed perhaps gives some of the most striking results - using Dobs - at least that is how I first started with EEA.  But now I do both EEA and Astrophotography seeing value in both aspects.

Tim
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BobDenny 1.20
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Robin Clark - EAA imager:
If you are unfamiliar with EAA, this is a good place to start: https://astronomyconnect.com/forums/articles/an-introduction-to-electronically-assisted-astronomy-eaa.77/

EAA is another way to enjoy our hobby. Camera manufacturers such as Atik, ZWO, Mallincam, and Starlight Xpress all offer cameras and software that cater to folks interested in EAA. If your interests lie elsewhere, please find other forums that are a better match for your interests.

This was very informative and useful, thanks. I was about to ask that very question. I keep seeing it, and now I understand. Thanks again.
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MO64 0.00
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I had an idea once in 2018, to minimize the refractive artifacts present in almost all reflectors. Which lead to a design that was registered, but it wasn't quite right. After some introspective self-examination, I had another thought, which is what the image is showing the progress of. I am a toolmaker by trade and have considered many ways of building a device to resolve my issue. The biggest issue I have found is the inability to simply talk to anyone about it, due to the difficulty in describing it. So, without describing it to well, it is a fixed focus full aperture zero thickness pinhole camera. 

With a focal length of approximately 'X' meters, due to the obvious focusing issue on the unfiltered image attached of the sun. Along with the dust on the sensor face and probably the window in the spare room. It was cold outside. The sensor is a Raspberry Pi HQ (Sony IMX 477) and I am ascending the curve of learning with Visual Studio Code, Python and Pi. 

Of all the mounting and tracking options available, whether purchased or self-made, I finally settled on none at all. With the development of everything, such that it is, I have chosen diurnal motion and let the Moore's magic do the rest. I don't believe I need to extol the benefits of diurnal motion and its reliability. 

The one and only component other than the sensor was made very roughly by hand, on the couch binging Foxtel. So I have left enough room for improvement. 

Ultimately, it will be mostly 3D printable with the necessary jigs and fixtures required to make one yourself.

Until then, it will be images only, with ever increasing telemetry and what not. SunsEdge_85.jpg
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spacetimepictures 4.07
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Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!
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MO64 0.00
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·  1 like
Spacetime Pictures:
Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!

This was the design from 2018:

Design 201910056 | IP Australia | Australian Design Search
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spacetimepictures 4.07
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·  1 like
Spacetime Pictures:
Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!

This was the design from 2018:

Design 201910056 | IP Australia | Australian Design Search

Looks interesting, but I fail to see its relation to the topic of EAA
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MO64 0.00
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Spacetime Pictures:
Spacetime Pictures:
Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!

This was the design from 2018:

Design 201910056 | IP Australia | Australian Design Search

Looks interesting, but I fail to see its relation to the topic of EAA

It doesn't, I was pretty sure I explained that, as it doesn't require a digital sensor to acquire an image. It was just my solution to the spider vain issue with reflectors. This new design is different again and addresses the limits imposed by Rayleigh and Dawes. As an alternative to just building bigger using Dawes as your guide.  
I also struggle with how it doesn't relate to EAA, in that the only parts are the sensor and primary element. Unless there is something else meant by 'Electronically-Assisted Astronomy', one of us is confused, probably me. If history is anything to go by.
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spacetimepictures 4.07
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·  1 like
Spacetime Pictures:
Spacetime Pictures:
Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!

This was the design from 2018:

Design 201910056 | IP Australia | Australian Design Search

Looks interesting, but I fail to see its relation to the topic of EAA

It doesn't, I was pretty sure I explained that, as it doesn't require a digital sensor to acquire an image. It was just my solution to the spider vain issue with reflectors. This new design is different again and addresses the limits imposed by Rayleigh and Dawes. As an alternative to just building bigger using Dawes as your guide.  
I also struggle with how it doesn't relate to EAA, in that the only parts are the sensor and primary element. Unless there is something else meant by 'Electronically-Assisted Astronomy', one of us is confused, probably me. If history is anything to go by.

I don't want to speak for others in this thread, but in this context, I understood EAA was meant for "live observation of deep sky objects, using cameras and short integrations".
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MO64 0.00
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· 
Spacetime Pictures:
Spacetime Pictures:
Spacetime Pictures:
Imo any astronomy is good astronomy : smartphone astronomy, pencil astronomy, naked eye astronomy, zwo astronomy, night vision astronomy, million dollar astronomy...show us the work!

This was the design from 2018:

Design 201910056 | IP Australia | Australian Design Search

Looks interesting, but I fail to see its relation to the topic of EAA

It doesn't, I was pretty sure I explained that, as it doesn't require a digital sensor to acquire an image. It was just my solution to the spider vain issue with reflectors. This new design is different again and addresses the limits imposed by Rayleigh and Dawes. As an alternative to just building bigger using Dawes as your guide.  
I also struggle with how it doesn't relate to EAA, in that the only parts are the sensor and primary element. Unless there is something else meant by 'Electronically-Assisted Astronomy', one of us is confused, probably me. If history is anything to go by.

I don't want to speak for others in this thread, but in this context, I understood EAA was meant for "live observation of deep sky objects, using cameras and short integrations".

I think I understand the breakdown in communication. This is a active project and the image uploaded was merely the proof of concept. The easiest way to describe it is an alternative to the bucket method. With a number of different configurations considered, one of which provides tracking for traditionally framed  long exposures. Your imagery is something I can only dream of, but I have a skillset to make up for the things I haven't thought of yet. Diurnal motion would be suitable for planetary transits and the current field of view is around 1 degree, I have cleaned the lens but the primary element clearly needs work. 

I look forward to your critique for future uploads.
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aabosarah 6.80
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·  2 likes
I love the live stacking feature on ASIair. When I first started out I would sit on my iPad and just live stack a target every 30 minutes before I move on to the next one to explore the night sky, and was utterly amazed. I think the first DSO I ever captured was the Rosette on the Askar FRA400. Something otherwise impossible with a 72mm refractor from a Bortle 6 backyard.

I think as long as an image is clearly labeled as EAA and there is no post processing performed (image shared as seen live on your screen), then that is a very welcome addition.

I am also very glad to see those all in one sub $500 robotic all inclusive setups coming on the market. These are much better solutions for viewing the night sky from our light polluted backyards, and for a change are not hobby killers. The more inclusive and accessible astronomy is, the better.
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