Begginer Astrophotographer, i need some tips, thanks Requests for constructive critique · @VictorBC90 · ... · 14 · 352 · 9

VictorBC90 0.00
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Hello there, i always loved astrophotography, but i would say that i officialy started few weeks ago, this is my 2nd try photographing the Orion Nebula.
I would like some tips and critiques so i can get better results, thanks!
Canon 80D
Canon 70-200 ( 200mm ) f2.8 IS L USM
ISO 5000
Exposure 1.6 seconds
f2.8
150 lights + 50 bias + 30 darks
Software used: Deep Sky Stacker and Photoshop

https://astrob.in/5vyml6/0/
Edited ...
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scott1 5.29
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·  1 like
Hi Luiz

Orion is a difficult object even for an experienced person. Maybe try  NGC 2238 (Rosette ) if you like that part of the sky.
Scott
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psychwolf 1.51
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·  1 like
Not bad at all for a 2nd try! Where's your first try? Don't be afraid to post up in the gallery when you've got revisions - lots of quality stuff on Astrobin, but also no worries for us newer people as well, since there's always an available subject for reshoots and improvements years later. Sometimes it's fun to look back on the history of what was shot and remember the techniques vs not having it available on here to look back on. As Orion is starting to rise sooner, here's a shot I just took not that long ago of the same target if you'd like a comparison https://www.astrobin.com/xhuqa4/B/ at 135mm 2min subs - during a mostly full moon at 1am. I'm only maybe 2 years back into astrophotography with still a lot of room to improve. So you'll probably get many more shares to this thread as well, some will be pristine shots as we're accustomed to, and others may be more average like mine - each photographer will have different techniques most likely or exposure times, so it's a hobby where you're always learning. Glad you've started your journey into astrophotography, as it's an area you never stop learning.

Some constructive tips I noticed:
Focus is off - try using a Bahtinov mask over the dew shield next time, or just zooming in very close in your shots to make sure you've got pinprick stars.
Coloration is a bit blue for this target, if you're doing manual curves it's easy to overshoot in one area so just go very slowly, many layers and curves.
You've also got some blur going on. I'd suggest shooting DSO with a star tracker, as you can match the movement of the sky then with longer exposure.
Try stepping down ISO and increasing your shot time - exposure is very very fast, so you're going to get a lot of noise at that amount of ISO. 
Try stepping down the F stop to something not quite at the max - maybe f3.2, if you can. Full open at f2.8 may not be as sharp on a zoom, so adjust then accordingly.
Level your blacks a little so that your curve is not directly peaking on the left side. It's okay to not have a pure black sky as it helps the eye see color detail in DSO objects more.

Others here are far more experienced than me so will likely have more to add. But nicely done! Glad you're enjoying the stars with your camera and starting on the adventure of astrophotography. Also, if you're not yet on Cloudy Nights - try posting this up there as well in the beginner astrophotography section, as you'll likely have others in your same boat. Astrobin gets a lot of vets to this hobby, so the beginner forums at CL may have more regularly browsing that section!
Hope this helps a little!
Edited ...
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psychwolf 1.51
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·  1 like
Scott Lockwood:
Hi Luiz

Orion is a difficult object even for an experienced person. Maybe try  NGC 2238 (Rosette ) if you like that part of the sky.
Scott

Not sure that's the best target if you're not using a star tracker - I checked for it in gear, didn't see one listed. OP would need far more integration time for that target than under a few seconds per sub frame still. Andromeda would be a nice and bright one right now though, or the 7 Sisters.
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VictorBC90 0.00
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Not bad at all for a 2nd try! Where's your first try? Don't be afraid to post up in the gallery when you've got revisions - lots of quality stuff on Astrobin, but also no worries for us newer people as well, since there's always an available subject for reshoots and improvements years later. Sometimes it's fun to look back on the history of what was shot and remember the techniques vs not having it available on here to look back on. As Orion is starting to rise sooner, here's a shot I just took not that long ago of the same target if you'd like a comparison https://www.astrobin.com/xhuqa4/B/ at 135mm 2min subs - during a mostly full moon at 1am. I'm only maybe 2 years back into astrophotography with still a lot of room to improve. So you'll probably get many more shares to this thread as well, some will be pristine shots as we're accustomed to, and others may be more average like mine - each photographer will have different techniques most likely or exposure times, so it's a hobby where you're always learning. Glad you've started your journey into astrophotography, as it's an area you never stop learning.

Some constructive tips I noticed:
Focus is off - try using a Bahtinov mask over the dew shield next time, or just zooming in very close in your shots to make sure you've got pinprick stars.
Coloration is a bit blue for this target, if you're doing manual curves it's easy to overshoot in one area so just go very slowly, many layers and curves.
You've also got some blur going on. I'd suggest shooting DSO with a star tracker, as you can match the movement of the sky then with longer exposure.
Try stepping down ISO and increasing your shot time - exposure is very very fast, so you're going to get a lot of noise at that amount of ISO. 
Try stepping down the F stop to something not quite at the max - maybe f3.2, if you can. Full open at f2.8 may not be as sharp on a zoom, so adjust then accordingly.
Level your blacks a little so that your curve is not directly peaking on the left side. It's okay to not have a pure black sky as it helps the eye see color detail in DSO objects more.

Others here are far more experienced than me so will likely have more to add. But nicely done! Glad you're enjoying the stars with your camera and starting on the adventure of astrophotography. Also, if you're not yet on Cloudy Nights - try posting this up there as well in the beginner astrophotography section, as you'll likely have others in your same boat. Astrobin gets a lot of vets to this hobby, so the beginner forums at CL may have more regularly browsing that section!
Hope this helps a little!

Hey psychwolf, thank you very much for the help, really beautiful star effect that you have in your shot!
I will search for Cloudy Nights, thanks for the sugestion.
About the techinical stuff, yeah i hear you, there are many things that we have to be aware and ready before start the photo session, also in the image processing...
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VictorBC90 0.00
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Scott Lockwood:
Hi Luiz

Orion is a difficult object even for an experienced person. Maybe try  NGC 2238 (Rosette ) if you like that part of the sky.
Scott

Ahh, thanks, i see it in the app, i'll try today if the sky cooperate haha!
Like
psychwolf 1.51
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·  1 like
@VictorBC90:
Not bad at all for a 2nd try! Where's your first try? Don't be afraid to post up in the gallery when you've got revisions - lots of quality stuff on Astrobin, but also no worries for us newer people as well, since there's always an available subject for reshoots and improvements years later. Sometimes it's fun to look back on the history of what was shot and remember the techniques vs not having it available on here to look back on. As Orion is starting to rise sooner, here's a shot I just took not that long ago of the same target if you'd like a comparison https://www.astrobin.com/xhuqa4/B/ at 135mm 2min subs - during a mostly full moon at 1am. I'm only maybe 2 years back into astrophotography with still a lot of room to improve. So you'll probably get many more shares to this thread as well, some will be pristine shots as we're accustomed to, and others may be more average like mine - each photographer will have different techniques most likely or exposure times, so it's a hobby where you're always learning. Glad you've started your journey into astrophotography, as it's an area you never stop learning.

Some constructive tips I noticed:
Focus is off - try using a Bahtinov mask over the dew shield next time, or just zooming in very close in your shots to make sure you've got pinprick stars.
Coloration is a bit blue for this target, if you're doing manual curves it's easy to overshoot in one area so just go very slowly, many layers and curves.
You've also got some blur going on. I'd suggest shooting DSO with a star tracker, as you can match the movement of the sky then with longer exposure.
Try stepping down ISO and increasing your shot time - exposure is very very fast, so you're going to get a lot of noise at that amount of ISO. 
Try stepping down the F stop to something not quite at the max - maybe f3.2, if you can. Full open at f2.8 may not be as sharp on a zoom, so adjust then accordingly.
Level your blacks a little so that your curve is not directly peaking on the left side. It's okay to not have a pure black sky as it helps the eye see color detail in DSO objects more.

Others here are far more experienced than me so will likely have more to add. But nicely done! Glad you're enjoying the stars with your camera and starting on the adventure of astrophotography. Also, if you're not yet on Cloudy Nights - try posting this up there as well in the beginner astrophotography section, as you'll likely have others in your same boat. Astrobin gets a lot of vets to this hobby, so the beginner forums at CL may have more regularly browsing that section!
Hope this helps a little!

Hey psychwolf, thank you very much for the help, really beautiful star effect that you have in your shot!
I will search for Cloudy Nights, thanks for the sugestion.
About the techinical stuff, yeah i hear you, there are many things that we have to be aware and ready before start the photo session, also in the image processing...

@VictorBC90: That star effect you're referring to is called a Diffraction Spike, in this case it relates to the effect the aperture blades in the lens has on bright objects - in this case the brightest belt stars in Orion. It is a pretty effect, although not an actual effect that is added in - more just the nature of using DSLR camera lenses. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction_spike)  Some people do like them so much they will post-process artificial spikes in, others do not like them as much.

Go to https://www.cloudynights.com/forum/80-beginning-deep-sky-imaging/ and post up this question. Do publish your image first in your gallery especially if this is your second try!

Anyway, hopefully those tips help meanwhile - long way to go still, but important thing is starting the journey and going under the stars. Note, I wouldn't try for the Rosette yet, unless you've got a method to mount your camera on a star tracker or piggybacked on a telescope mount that is tracking. Try the moon, it's very full - and that's also a reason to not try the Rosette yet. But try Andromeda or the Pleiades first. Without a way to get longer exposures without star trailing at 200mm, you'll want to stick with wider angles and bright objects, trying to increase exposure time to get more light in without needing to have ISO so steep.
Edited ...
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david.nozadze 1.91
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Hey Victor!

Excellent work for the 2nd try. You definitely understand how to expose and how to process. So, I think you should invest into a simple tracker, something from Sky Watcher or iOptron. Without these, you will alway get those elongated stars each time. But with a tracker, you will be able to expose 30 seconds, perhaps even up to a whole minute per shot. Orion nebula is indeed one of the tricky targets, as you need to have a wide dynamic range in the image to show super bright core along with super dim nebulosity. But once you master it, then it is most rewarding. You can capture it and process it every year and discover something new in it. It was the very first DSO I photographed, almost exactly one year ago. This is what I got: 
20201024 M42 Final.jpg

But then I reprocessed the very same stack with some new skills, I learned during this year and this is what I got from the same shot:

M42_PI_FINAL-DeNoiseAI-clear.jpeg

Now can't wait for this beauty to get high in the sky and shoot again

So as the friends said above, go ahead, shoot as much as you can and then return to your work over and over again and share it with us, please

Clear skies

D
Like
VictorBC90 0.00
...
David Nozadze:
Hey Victor!

Excellent work for the 2nd try. You definitely understand how to expose and how to process. So, I think you should invest into a simple tracker, something from Sky Watcher or iOptron. Without these, you will alway get those elongated stars each time. But with a tracker, you will be able to expose 30 seconds, perhaps even up to a whole minute per shot. Orion nebula is indeed one of the tricky targets, as you need to have a wide dynamic range in the image to show super bright core along with super dim nebulosity. But once you master it, then it is most rewarding. You can capture it and process it every year and discover something new in it. It was the very first DSO I photographed, almost exactly one year ago. This is what I got: 
20201024 M42 Final.jpg

But then I reprocessed the very same stack with some new skills, I learned during this year and this is what I got from the same shot:

M42_PI_FINAL-DeNoiseAI-clear.jpeg

Now can't wait for this beauty to get high in the sky and shoot again

So as the friends said above, go ahead, shoot as much as you can and then return to your work over and over again and share it with us, please

Clear skies

D

Wow, really great photos, nice! Thanks... i dont have star tracker yet, maybe doon i will get  the CEM26 iOptron, i cant wait to get my hands on it, and i need lots of skill to learn all the necessary things, there is a lot of work, thank you.
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VictorBC90 0.00
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·  1 like
here are the 1st, 2nd and 3th atempts. i did another one yesterday the 3th.

astro bin 1.jpgastro bin 2.jpgastro bin 3.jpg
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david.nozadze 1.91
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WOW!
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psychwolf 1.51
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You've been improving!  I like the final attempt, focus is best there and nicest color blending. Still a unique orange/blue color combo than I'm used to seeing in Orion, but looks good. Note you're seeing uniform red in the stars around Orion, so masking will be the next area to look into, to ensure you're only locally editing colors.

But my biggest piece of feedback now is there are still no images in your profile yet! Post up and share the link when you do.
We'll follow along on the journey then.

I'm noting this since I see a lot of analysis paralysis with new people in this hobby - it's best to post, post more, improve, revisit. It'll help visitors  note your acquisition techniques as well prior to commenting as you're looking for comments.
image.png
Edited ...
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stevendevet 6.77
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·  1 like
Considering your equipment, it's already a great image.

there are some good tips mentioned already.
Focus, F-stop, ISO, etc. And the post processing is something that simply takes time. Learning what works and what doesn't.
I'm still learning new stuff every day about the post processing.

The biggest improvement will probably come from a star tracker, so you can increase your exposure time, and decrease your ISO.
trying to shoot untracked, it simply put, very difficult.

Obviously, this is a bit of an investment. A "skywatcher star adventurer" or "ioptron skyguider/sky tracker" will cost you a bit.
Depending on how serious you plan on taking this hobby, it might be worth it.
Like
VictorBC90 0.00
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You've been improving!  I like the final attempt, focus is best there and nicest color blending. Still a unique orange/blue color combo than I'm used to seeing in Orion, but looks good. Note you're seeing uniform red in the stars around Orion, so masking will be the next area to look into, to ensure you're only locally editing colors.

But my biggest piece of feedback now is there are still no images in your profile yet! Post up and share the link when you do.
We'll follow along on the journey then.

I'm noting this since I see a lot of analysis paralysis with new people in this hobby - it's best to post, post more, improve, revisit. It'll help visitors  note your acquisition techniques as well prior to commenting as you're looking for comments.
image.png

Now i put some pictures there haha, and thanks for the tips again, i need to fix the stars color next time, you are right, masking could help a lot
Like
VictorBC90 0.00
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Considering your equipment, it's already a great image.

there are some good tips mentioned already.
Focus, F-stop, ISO, etc. And the post processing is something that simply takes time. Learning what works and what doesn't.
I'm still learning new stuff every day about the post processing.

The biggest improvement will probably come from a star tracker, so you can increase your exposure time, and decrease your ISO.
trying to shoot untracked, it simply put, very difficult.

Obviously, this is a bit of an investment. A "skywatcher star adventurer" or "ioptron skyguider/sky tracker" will cost you a bit.
Depending on how serious you plan on taking this hobby, it might be worth it.

Yeah, i already have my eyes on one tracker haha! Thanks Steven
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