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So I started my astrophotography journey in December and I am eager to learn. There are so many different opinions and methods, it's hard to find the middle way. Of course, eveyone should find his/her own way, but then again we all want to share and have others joy at what we achieve. So I recently worked on the Wizard Nebula ( https://astrob.in/8g71sy/0/ ) and I am also working on getting SHO palette with a OSC, using two NB filters. I know I am way off from what's perfect, and a lot is just luck or coincidence. But also the opinions change by audience. So for this photo I have already over 800 likes and lots of posiive comments in a German astronomy FB group, while in the "professional" field of ASA and PlaneWave user groups here at astrobin, of course I just get 11 likes, even less than of some of my worse pictures. I compared with other Wizards, and the only thing I find is, "crop to fill the frame", but ist this the only thing that counts? Or is the Wizard just a too often shown object, comparing awards, it barely has one, and if, only if the person is a well know astro person ;). At the moment I am twisted if the photo is just bad, which is ok, because I am a beginner, but then it's weird to understand because of the different opinions in different forums. Thanks in advance and appreciate any critique! CS, Michael |
10.06
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Hello Michael, I would like to answer your question. Astrofotography is a longtherm journey. To find your own way, you have to know or better learn what kind of instrumention and processing style you really like. For me it was a good way for orientation to put pics, I really like into my bookmarks and try to find out how they did it and then follow. The difference to other forums is, that here are mainly people that are astrofotographers themselves which will have a more different and critical view on your pics. By the way, astrobin is not a forum for ASA or Plane Wave users. By far not. If you want to get into the focus, you have to find followers too. My goal here is to get in contact and change knowledge with other colleagues and by so, improving my skills. And here you will find wonderful people. This will take years Michael. My advice for you is, to put your focus on improving the quality of your pics and not expect to get a lot of likes for pics which are average. Please don't give up too fast. And please don't give too much on what others are thinking about your work when you are just a beginner. The passion for astronomy has to come from you and it is more than just a workflow. Christoph |
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Hello Michael, good start with this wizzard.. nothing special here on Astrobin. Not sure why you did get so many likes on other forum.. maybe they consider that you are beginner. Anyway check for example my Wizzards and judge yourself where is the differents. Notice that non of them got more then 35 likes here and did not even reach top pics nomination. The users, judges are very picky sometimes here  but that is the life… also whats matter is how many follower you have.. more of them means most time more likes even for average pictures.https://astrob.in/d3nc7v/B/ https://astrob.in/s5y81z/zF/ David |
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Christoph Lichtblau: Thanks a lot Christoph, Well yes, the ASA or PlaneWave users forum was just an intended exaggeration to trigger answers, works like followers ;) I agree with you 100%, and I don't expect likes, in this occation it was an obvious difference to start a conversation and the main point as a beginner is, to get some confirmation to be on the / a right way. Obviously this Wizard picture did trigger myself a bit, as doing some research on others, I found some difference and I am curious if there is some obvious difference, which sometimes is, but mostly not. My main focus and joy on this hobby is to learn about astronomie and the little successes and achievements, step by step. Thank you so much taking time to answer and confirming common goals of knowledge transfer. As you probably have experienced yourself, it's hatd to find interest of people into this time consuming hobby outside the astro bubble, so i appreciate every conversation here and F2F. And thanks for rating my pictures average (some are just bad tries imho), this is way more than I expected in a few months time, it's such a steep learning curve! Michael |
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1.20
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David Zimák: Thanks David, Well, yes, a beginner's group on FB with many "not have started yet" or "just here to look at photos" group, probably the photo was just at the right time as people started to get fed up with thousands of Aurora smartphone photos  Yes, the judges are VERY picky ;) But that's not my intention here, would be great at some point to get some appreciation though ;). As said, I suspected maybe filling the frame is more an eye catcher, obviously I have to work on my SHO colours, it's different with a OSC and two NB filters and my amount of data is also not the best. This will obviously change in the future, I am moving on from my little refractor to a 12 inch F/4 Newtonian soon, which will introduce my to many other, new, problems but I am looking forward to get more data in a shorter time, between all those clouds.Great to speak to you Astro-Guys! Appreciate it! Michael |
12.17
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| The only way you will get hundreds of likes yourself is to create a set of followers. You can do this by following lots and lots of people, and liking their photos, and hoping that some proportion of them in turn like your photos back. Or else of course, get an IOTD, but you are definitely not going to get it for the Wizard Nebula which has been doing hundreds if not thousands of times. To get a IOTD you will be competing against people with access to dark sky sites, who have spent hundreds of thousands on remote setups, and who have much better equipment - some even imaging with 1 meter scopes on mountaintops. So, while your Wizard Nebula is very good, this is what you are competing with! This is not Instagram, TikTok or Facebook. Unless someone knows you, they are very unlikely to click like on a random image unless there is something special about it. I would look at this as a place to simply post your images, find people with similar conditions and equipment as you, and motivate and improve yourself in that way. Any random photo I post generally gets anywhere from 40-100 likes, and that’s totally fine by me. |
2.11
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In addition to what is already said, is to find your artistic style and audience. Every style has different audience. Most of the astro community follow one, realistic style. Yet people especially who are not particularly interested in astrophotography sometimes find the other styles more interesting, meantime astrophotographers find it 'very poorly processed' (this includes me as well). I work at APOD and we sometimes get criticisms because this and honestly it makes me sad. First of all, people do not seem to acknowledge APOD is an education and public outreach platform, not an astrophotography contest. To reach out more people, we diversify the content as well. And this works. I have seen perfectly good pictures by famous astrophotographers don't even reach 25% of the reach, say a 'poorly processed' image. Because the audience of the APOD is 'anyone', not only the people who has an eye to see the details we see here. This is the result, because for APOD the story matters more than the image. And I see people submit an image of Orion nebula during dolar eclipse and criticise because their beautiful image is not selected. Or don't realize that poorly image has sometimes a bigger audience than theirs. On the other hand, we constantly monitor this by using different focus groups. Just like you say, you literally witnessed this. That group is quite interested in your image. If you'd share a version that got more likes in here, it could have got less likes in that group. I have seen this happening so many times, that I can not tell you. It used to bother me, because I know which one 'is better'. But it does not bother me anymore. Because the audience and their expectations differ. You can't shape the world around you with your style, you have to accept the differences. For example they do not care about the shapes of the stars on the corner, we do. They do not care if the stars has a reducted size to make the background pop-up, we do. Sometimes they just like what looks like a complete mess, they like seeing a lot of stars! You can not change this. These people just like and scrool down. They probably haven't even seen any art gallery, you can't make them to see. In short, it all depends on your expectations. What is your audience is the most critical question. Then find people who has thr same audience and see what they do differently and practice. |
7.12
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Interestingly I have the exact opposite feelings about my Wizard. I definitely was not using an ASA or a Planewave. Just a second hand standard C11 XLT that I got for about $1100, on a very modest AM5 with a carbon fiber tripod, sitting from my light polluted backyard. Essentially a so called impossible setup that people will probably swear to you won't work. When I posted it last year I had just started astrophotography maybe 6 months prior to that image. I was shocked when it got a top pick. It is my only top pick to date. I don't have the same feelings towards that image that others had here. I don't even particularly like that image, and don't really know why it got top pick status. I have seen Planewave images from remote sites that definitely got less likes and looked better to my eyes. Some of my favorite images are not what many feel are good images here. It is just all subjective and personal taste. But there are some objective things that I definitely feel I can do better. https://www.astrobin.com/5a5d7v/C/ Astrobin is also a social media website, not just an image repository. The more you interact with people, the more of a learning experience you will have out of it. |
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Arun H: Thanks Arun, almost 100% agree with you, maybe sometimes you also see lucky Bortle 6 budget winners. I think there are many views on this topic, and sometimes it's probably just the right moment to post something. However, my main point is really to see what people think is good and their ways to achive it to get inspirations to find my way. Michael |
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| It’s a sure fire way to burnout in the hobby if you’re chasing the likes and awards. just have fun and create what you like. |
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Ashraf AbuSara: After more than 10 years of social media management and public outreach, if I learned something, that is, it is sometimes impossible to predict the outcome. By nature it has to be actually, otherwise we would have recipes for success and keep doing the same But things develop quite fast. What worked 3 years ago don't do the same now.What I meant is exactly your scenario. It is actually not interesting quite opposite happened. That is the thing, the opposite have that likeliness as well That's what I meant. Just enjoy the journey. There are lots of things to try in this hobby. Endless thing. One can't get tired of this hobby. If I give an unsolicited advice to some, that is Sartre's speech when he rejects the Nobel prize: "Do not let the institutions shape your writing" (in this case image ).
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Kay Ogetay: Thanks Kay, Wow and thanks for some really interesting insight into APOD! I agree 100% on everything you said, the main difference is, how is the AstroBin world thinking? I had quite an interesting nicht with my brand new mout and during the session the full Aurora impact came in, just when I went out to check on it. If you read the description, you'll understand. So this particular photos is connected, for me, with some nice memories. I still have a long journey in front of me, my interest is not mainly on likes but the science and stories behind. Working for a big, also Space related, company like you, I am all over this field and sucking in any space related science literature and YouTube videos I recently watched an interesting view on the likes topic, he thinks it's if people can relate on how the photo is taken, by a phone or by a 10000k setup, it easly happens the phone photo wins by a lot, because everyone has a phone camera! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4vlSCda_Uc Again, thanks for your time and insight! CS! Michael |
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Ashraf AbuSara: Thanks Ashraf! You are already on a great journey! Yes these surprises are great, I was happy like a kitten getting food when my soul nebula photo got to promotions, just one short of getting to the next step. Appreciate your opinion, and it's great to get to talk you you guys! Michael |
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Byron Miller: Thanks Byron, Sure, but likes are not my main point, I just want to understand how people think here and how they decided or developed to the point they are now. CS, Michael |
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Hi Michael, Don't get discouraged by the number of "likes" you receive on an image. As others have said it will vary with the audience and usually has very little to do with image quality. Especially quality as fellow astrophotographers would see it. Lately I have been using OSC data much the same way as you are with similar filters. Having that experience to compare I have to say I would have been thrilled to produce the image you have when I was equally new to the hobby. It's very good! It takes many of us years to get a result like you have in your image and we are always learning. I would caution you not to get discouraged if you don't get a lot of response like you may expect. The number of "likes" one receives is a very poor metric to judge your work by. Instead remember the feeling you had when the first image showed up at the end of your processing that really made you say Wow! We have all struggled learning and had that exact experience. Strive to continue impressing yourself with the images you can produce and always look for ways to improve. Don't be hesitant to share your images on sites like this and ask for help if there is something you are struggling with. The results will be noticed over time and the recognition will naturally follow. Keep up the good work. CS, Jeff |
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Jeff Reitzel: Hi Jeff, Thanks for your encouraging words! I am not chasing likes, however admit sometimes they trigger me to question my own preferences However, it's not easy to ask the question I asked without making the impression of chasing likes. This was just an, for me, extreme example and experience, looking at the story behind the photo and the different reactions.As you said, it's a long and never ending journey of developing a style and to enjoy it. I also love to enjoy the stories and the science behind each of the photos and to learn from it. CS, Michael |
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Michael Nemetz:Byron Miller: There is no one way for any of this and we all certainly don’t think the same. Do what you enjoy and you will build your own audience and just participate in ways that are healthy for you and your hobby. this place is a captive audience and the likes are fleeting and what trended a year ago won’t trend tomorrow so do what makes you happy. |
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Michael Nemetz:Kay Ogetay: You are very welcome! I'm not here as a guy from APOD doing astrophotography, but I'm part of APOD as an astrophotographer I would say And I try to build more bridges between these communities. So, I'm happy to provide any insights.The video has a very bold claim, I have to say. Would be a nice social psychology thesis So this is certainly related to what I say, good catch! And thanks for sharing. I believe it certainly has a role. If anyone works in the music or film industry, they would confirm the same about the microphones. There is a microphone that was used widely in Hollywood and people so got used to hearing that kind of voice. Even though we developed better microphones, still many in the industry prefer to use that specific microphone because of this effect. So, I believe the claim is certainly interesting and possible. And agrees with my experience as well. But as a person who is also doing story telling, I have to say a great picture is not the one that follows the rules, but the one that adds story to it. In astrophotography, this is hard and this is why landscapes are found to be more inspiring. A lot to discuss about it... |
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Michael Nemetz: I think that if you count "likes" you will be always diseapointed. Its even worst here IMO. Sometime I look at APOD here and Im like "nice picture" then read down the page "remote chile observatory" and just close astrobin. I work too fucking hard, trying to deal with elements, weather, and what not to get a decent picture to start to worry about APOD and likes. I use AB to get ideas of target and compare my result but mosty as a repository to share my image on my fb or to my friend and familly. I think most ppl are just ass sometime. They come look at ur images and dont leave a single like or comment like you dont deserve it lol I like all pictures I look into, as long as I can see someone did an effort. I systematically skip every "remote facility" not owned by the author as well as data from space telescope. The only exception is those guys/gals who discover new stuff and use remote facility for research purpose. Your picture is great btw, fk who say otherwise. |
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Karl Theberge: Thanks Karl, Appreciated! Sounds like there are many like-minded and I understand what you're saying. CS, Michael |
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It's not that the users or judges here are picky. It's that they have so many more images to pick from. How many pictures are posted every day on your FB group? Now how many are posted here every day? I don't know. Perhaps Sal could tell us, but it's hundreds. Plus, everyone here is an astrophotographer, so the audience has more baseline knowledge and has seen more astronomical images than any other audience. Your Wizard image is very good. For a beginner, it's great. But it's one among a sea of good Wizard images, so it's unlikely to stand out. And that's fine. What matters is that it's yours and that you enjoyed creating it. |
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Miss Quoted |
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Karl Theberge: Totally uncalled for. |
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As others have said, if you're doing it for the likes, you might have a bad time. I've noticed the more I like other peoples stuff, the more mine get liked in return of course. Then out of nowhere when I haven't been really active for a bit, all of a sudden one of my older pictures will get 3-4 (which isn't an insignificant amount for me) out of nowhere. Just keep at it really. |
