# 19 Jun, 2019 17:06
Connor MatherneWhat about likes? I think there are 2 main reasons poeple "like" an image 1 is the image is good and they judge it in teh same manner that the judges do for the IOTD. The second reason is that they know or like the imager.Roberto Colombari
A good statistic to consider in the % of views that result in likes. If 100 people view the image and 60 like it–that is better than of 1100 people view it and 250 like it.
# 19 Jun, 2019 17:11
Connor MatherneRoberto Colombari
That's makes sense but in this case these images have been published just 3 days one from the other.
Potentially, I can't prove it, they were at the same time in the TP queue.
Nobody is guilty here. Simply the process as it has been conceived takes to much into the game the user visibility and how much the user interacts with the community.
It happened to me, as well. I was very active years ago and my reward rate was much higher than now.
# 19 Jun, 2019 18:30
It appears this has become and TP/IOTD thread, so I'm throwing in my current view of it instead of likes.|
I can't speak for other judges, reviewers, and submitters, but this is my workflow for selecting images: Open full-resolution ->Mentally decide -> Check equipment -> Check IOTD Page for same target -> Formalize decision. Given that my decision is made before checking equipment (which also means I see user, views, and likes), I believe this is the most effective way to blindly choose images without modifying code.
I have some ideas:
# 19 Jun, 2019 18:52
What about when the image is down sampled to limit the zoom factor for full resolution viewing? The normal view is teh same zise but when you click full resolution, the image is much less zoomed–this hides noise and artifacts. Some images are excellent at full res–low noise, stars still sharp, etc–but the size is such that you can only view small details and not teh image–good for pixel peeping (which I feel should be done while judging) but not good for viewing teh image. So 2 image may look similar, but one is downsampled so its blemishes/defects are hidden .|
# 19 Jun, 2019 21:07
There is a 3rd reason. I like images also when I know the user is either learning, or coping with some particularly difficult circumstances yet has still managed to produce a fairly decent image even if it is not TP quality. I think sometimes people also need encouragement.
# 19 Jun, 2019 21:29
Mr. Rodd Dryfoos and Mr. Roberto Colombari…my name is scattered all over this thread. Thats the "blind fashion" you guys want to do?
Now, Ill ask… Is something personal against my name? Because I felt that I have NO history and ZERO background in Astrobin…whats going on? Im feeling very offended here.
Ill continue to put my Gallery here in Astrobin, because I paid for that. My gear is simple, but my passion for Astrophotography is huge, and some people even outside of Astrobin see my efforts, and a lot of Astrobin members give likes at my images and so what? Whats the problem about that? But, you are drawing a context about me that I think is very close to neglect my name.
With likes or without, they will make ZERO difference for me; I just want to say Thank You to all my friends I have done here and for all their amazing motivation.
# 19 Jun, 2019 21:40
The case of your images is just one (of a good amount of) example of the distortion that the like/TP system currently has.|
Nothing against you, believe me.
Just to be very honest, the fact that I go out 3 nights in a row during the week (me too with an inexpensive equipment) to find the darkest skies around Belo Horizonte, sleeping 2 hours, going to work destroyed, producing quite nice images and I get half the likes than yours, triggers some questions in my mind.
You would do the same if you were in my situation.
# 19 Jun, 2019 22:52
Wow, I've seen many of crybabies in my life… not sure why, but honestly I didn't expect to see one here…
# 19 Jun, 2019 23:24
Connor MatherneThanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as well your imaging style.
I'm calling myself out of astrobin after nearly 8 years, just asked the account permanent deletion.
No need to stay here anymore; it became nothing more nothing less than facebook which is something that, as far as I understood, we wanted to avoid 4 years ago with the "big" restyling.
I asked many times to remove the likes exactly because they give fuel to a facebookean competition. And in a certain way I'm right: go around there and you'll see many users commenting other users which in turn likes their images and so on.
At this point, I prefer staying on facebook, a single platform easy to handle.
# 20 Jun, 2019 00:54
CarastroTrue–but not a large percentage for most people I don't thinkRodd DryfoosThere is a 3rd reason. I like images also when I know the user is either learning, or coping with some particularly difficult circumstances yet has still managed to produce a fairly decent image even if it is not TP quality. I think sometimes people also need encouragement.
# 20 Jun, 2019 00:56
Daniel NobreYou should learn to read and be specific–I refrained from using any name, including yours because I knew people would be overly sensitive. So I don't appreciate the accusation. I have no control over what others post.Rodd Dryfoos
# 20 Jun, 2019 00:58
Roberto ColombariDon't Roberto–your mastery is unquestioned. Look over the low thinkers. Come on chap….don't goConnor MatherneThanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as well your imaging style.
# 20 Jun, 2019 01:01
Jonathan W MacCollumEasy for you to say you either get a lot of likes, or its doesn't matter because you do not have the skills…..I don't know I have no idea who you are. But I have a clue for you……it ain't sour grapes when the grapes are sourRodd DryfoosWow, I've seen many of crybabies in my life… not sure why, but honestly I didn't expect to see one here…
# 20 Jun, 2019 01:03
Michael TimmI completely agree, the button says "like" not "vote". Were all at different parts of the curve and all are limited in what equipment we can afford. Likes are simply a way to encourage each other. Although, I can sympathize with others about IOTD, TOP PICKS, RATING, & trending ranks; at the end of the day(literally) we all put endless heart, time, money, and care into these images despite the fact that we receive little to no award, pay, or even recognition. So anytime something like IOTD pops up we all are drawn to it sparking competstive emotions. We have to keep in mind that the IOTD and top pics are nothing other then a big like from fellow astrophgraphers. As for trending astrophotographers, again the only value which it holds is that which each user gives it. I believe the website was built as a place to share, encourage, collaborate, learn, and make some friends in this relatively small community. Let's not sully this by turning it into a competition and simply rejoice that we even social media devoted to those who share this similar interest.
# 20 Jun, 2019 01:04
Roberto Colombarithat is a ridiculous example–THAT IS a popularity contest. This should not be. This should be an evaluation of acquisition and processing skills–both of which are empirical. A better example is 2 students hand in the same test and answered in similar fashion and one gets a C and the other an A
# 20 Jun, 2019 01:08
John Michael Bell...I completely disagree–show me an image that gets 300 likes that is not a decent, probably great image. the vast majority of great images get a lot of likes. My complaint is not that they get a lot of likes–the complaint is that images of similar quality get 10x less likes.
# 20 Jun, 2019 01:44
Rodd DryfoosWhat? It's a like button… You click it if you like the image… You don't if you don't… No one has ever claimed an image is good by the the number of likes, and whining about isn't helping your case.
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:23
Jonathan W MacCollumof course the number of likes is related to image quality. Maybe not if general people are viewing but astrophotographers are viewing (for the most part).Rodd DryfoosWhat? It's a like button… You click it if you like the image… You don't if you don't… No one has ever claimed an image is good by the the number of likes, and whining about isn't helping your case.
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:31
Ok. No one claimed that the image quality is given by the number of likes but there is a ranking based exactly on the number of likes.|
Matherne would tell me: don't care about the ranking. Sure, why don't we take it out of the game since we have clear examples that likes are given based on the social activity of a user in the community?
Come on. Let's don't hide behind a finger: if we remove the like counter on the images 80% of the comments and likes that I see every day in the timeline will disappear. Astrobin by now is seen as a competition, no way
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:38
That's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another. Most reputable people I have encountered here don't seek to grow based on how many likes they have versus others but how they can learn from others who image with similar gear or in similar conditions. This has been a very encouraging and positive group of people and clicking that thumbs up button is merely one of many ways to share a quick "I like what you are doing here, I like what I am seeing." It's not a measuring device of quality by any means. It's a social form of communication. It's not grapes.
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:47
Jonathan W MacCollumit not a question of encouraging it that is the way it is. I submit that if you put a well processed image in comparison to a poorly processed, out if ficus( whatever) image, the well processed image will get many more likes. I would bet my life on itRodd DryfoosThat's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another. Most reputable people I have encountered here don't seek to grow based on how many likes they have versus others but how they can learn from others who image with similar gear or in similar conditions. This has been a very encouraging and positive group of people and clicking that thumbs up button is merely one of many ways to share a quick "I like what you are doing here, I like what I am seeing." It's not a measuring device of quality by any means. It's a social form of communication. It's not grapes.
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:48
Jonathan W MacCollum
The main ranking based on likes is for what? Telling us who is the nicer in the community?
# 20 Jun, 2019 02:50
Roberto ColombariJonathan W MacCollumThe main ranking based on likes is for what? Telling us who is the nicer in the community?
It tells us who is "trending" it's literally in the name. It's also the last item in the menu and honestly didn't even know it was a thing until after a year on this site. There's not much on the way of encouraging people to even go look at that list.
The stream of "activity" is front and center along with iotd, and top picks are right behind it. There is no page for "most likes" (maybe the search will let you use it for sorting perhaps? I haven't looked.)
# 20 Jun, 2019 03:11
Exactly. It's in the name itself:|
to generate or attract a lot of interest or attention especially online and in social media
It's quite clear to me that this ranking is pretty connected/directly proportional to the quality of the author's images. It couldn't be different
Anyway, let's forget it and turn the page.
For what concerns to me I'm off. Going to bed right now and hopefully tomorrow my account will be shut down.
I'll deal with it and find another solution which will most likely be Facebook. I've a good bunch of astrophotographers as friends. Posting here or there it's pretty the same for me.
If you are comfortable with the community as it is now, I'm not.
# 20 Jun, 2019 04:12
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