Cookie consent

AstroBin saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to deliver better content and for statistical purposes. You can disable the usage of cookies by changing the settings of your browser. By browsing AstroBin without changing the browser settings, you grant us permission to store that information on your device.

I agree

Likes

RAD
19 Jun, 2019 17:06
Connor Matherne
Roberto Colombari
That's pretty clear that my image can't directly compete with another one (older than X days) used for comparison, you correctly said the reason.What I'm asking is different and makes sense: the ***same staff*** has decided to promote as TP an image of Omega Centauri 3 months ago while (*** the same staff***) didn't promote mine. Which are the technical reasons?I can't tell you more. These 2 images have been published in the same timeframe, at least it looks in this way to me.
Or even better, the second is slightly older than the first.

Why the second one (one of the best I've seen of this object) hasn't been featured IOTD while the first was ?

NOTE: I'm not saying that the first doesn't deserve an IOTD. It's a really nice one, no doubt. The second is better and should have been featured as well

https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/cZFkapeSsT4a_1824x0_wmhqkGbg.jpg
https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/AhmM3KohMkNm_1824x0_wmhqkGbg.jpg

The second one could have been posted when there was more competition than the first. That's how the pickers have explained it in the past. Sometimes "lesser" images are awarded TPs because there weren't that many great images uploaded at that time, while sometimes "great" images don't get them because even "greater" images were posted at that time (only a couple days I think).

It's not the best way, and I agree it would probably be better to compare images of the same target against each other. But if you are asking why yours wasn't picked while the other was, the reason is above. If you're rhetorically asking because you know this, then never mind. Again, it isn't something I agree with, but that is how it is done.
  What about likes?  I think there are 2 main reasons poeple "like" an image 1 is the image is good and they judge it in teh same manner that the judges do for the IOTD.  The second reason is that they know or like the imager.

A good statistic to consider in the % of views that result in likes.  If 100 people view the image and 60 like it–that is better than of 1100 people view it and 250 like it.
Rodd
rob77
19 Jun, 2019 17:11
Connor Matherne
Roberto Colombari
That's pretty clear that my image can't directly compete with another one (older than X days) used for comparison, you correctly said the reason.What I'm asking is different and makes sense: the ***same staff*** has decided to promote as TP an image of Omega Centauri 3 months ago while (*** the same staff***) didn't promote mine. Which are the technical reasons?I can't tell you more. These 2 images have been published in the same timeframe, at least it looks in this way to me.
Or even better, the second is slightly older than the first.

Why the second one (one of the best I've seen of this object) hasn't been featured IOTD while the first was ?

NOTE: I'm not saying that the first doesn't deserve an IOTD. It's a really nice one, no doubt. The second is better and should have been featured as well

https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/cZFkapeSsT4a_1824x0_wmhqkGbg.jpg
https://cdn.astrobin.com/thumbs/AhmM3KohMkNm_1824x0_wmhqkGbg.jpg

The second one could have been posted when there was more competition than the first. That's how the pickers have explained it in the past. Sometimes "lesser" images are awarded TPs because there weren't that many great images uploaded at that time, while sometimes "great" images don't get them because even "greater" images were posted at that time (only a couple days I think).

It's not the best way, and I agree it would probably be better to compare images of the same target against each other. But if you are asking why yours wasn't picked while the other was, the reason is above. If you're rhetorically asking because you know this, then never mind. Again, it isn't something I agree with, but that is how it is done.

That's makes sense but in this case these images have been published just 3 days one from the other.
Potentially, I can't prove it, they were at the same time in the TP queue.

Nobody is guilty here. Simply the process as it has been conceived takes to much into the game the user visibility and how much the user interacts with the community.
It happened to me, as well. I was very active years ago and my reward rate was much higher than now.
Edited 19 Jun, 2019 17:12
Ethan
19 Jun, 2019 18:30
It appears this has become and TP/IOTD thread, so I'm throwing in my current view of it instead of likes.

I can't speak for other judges, reviewers, and submitters, but this is my workflow for selecting images: Open full-resolution ->Mentally decide -> Check equipment -> Check IOTD Page for same target -> Formalize decision. Given that my decision is made before checking equipment (which also means I see user, views, and likes), I believe this is the most effective way to blindly choose images without modifying code.

I have some ideas:
  • Force submitters, reviewers and judges to view the full image before selecting, something optional with the current interface.
  • While we're viewing the image, give us context not available on the normal full-res page, such as equipment, how many IOTDs the person has received recently, other IOTDs with the same target, etc. We may as well know who took it since plenty of people embed watermarks in their image (especially us planetary imagers), but I don't think there should be a link to their page.
  • Hide other details about the image, such as views, likes, bookmarks. I think comments should stay.
–Ethan
RAD
19 Jun, 2019 18:52
What about when the image is down sampled to limit the zoom factor for full resolution viewing?   The normal view is teh same zise but when you click full resolution, the image is much less zoomed–this hides noise and artifacts.  Some images are excellent at full res–low noise, stars still sharp, etc–but the size is such that you can only view small details and not teh image–good for pixel peeping (which I feel should be done while judging) but not good for viewing teh image.    So 2 image may look similar, but one is downsampled so its blemishes/defects are hidden .
Rodd
carastro
19 Jun, 2019 21:07
Rodd Dryfoos
What about likes?  I think there are 2 main reasons poeple "like" an image 1 is the image is good and they judge it in teh same manner that the judges do for the IOTD.  The second reason is that they know or like the imager.

There is a 3rd reason.  I like images also when I know the user is either learning, or coping with some particularly difficult circumstances yet has still managed to produce a fairly decent image even if it is not TP quality.  I think sometimes people also need encouragement.

Carole
Edited 19 Jun, 2019 21:08
Deep_Sky
19 Jun, 2019 21:29
Rodd Dryfoos
Likes are often based on nothing more than nothing more than popularity.  All images posted to the forum should be done so anonymously for the first week. Astrophotographers rankings should be based on these blind likes.  All to often I find examples of images that get 2-300 likes that are not as good as, or only marginally better than images of the same target that get 40-60 likes.I have a plethora of examples that I would like to post here (if that is even possible) but I would want them to be posted in blind fashion.  No need for names to be visible.
Rodd

As far as comments like "forget about likes..do it for enjoyment" or comments in that vein…..sure, lets just do away with likes altogether.  Or better yet, lets find a better way of roughly judging the quality of an image.

Well

Mr. Rodd Dryfoos and Mr. Roberto Colombari…my name is scattered all over this thread. Thats the "blind fashion" you guys want to do?

Now, Ill ask… Is something personal against my name? Because I felt that I have NO history and ZERO background in Astrobin…whats going on? Im feeling very offended here.

Ill continue to put my Gallery here in Astrobin, because I paid for that. My gear is simple, but my passion for Astrophotography is huge, and some people even outside of Astrobin see my efforts, and a lot of Astrobin members give likes at my images and so what? Whats the problem about that? But, you are drawing a context about me that I think is very close to neglect my name.

With likes or without, they will make ZERO difference for me; I just want to say Thank You to all my friends I have done here and for all their amazing motivation.

Daniel Nobre.
Edited 19 Jun, 2019 21:32
rob77
19 Jun, 2019 21:40
The case of your images is just one (of a good amount of) example of the distortion that the like/TP system currently has.
Nothing against you, believe me.

Just to be very honest, the fact that I go out 3 nights in a row during the week (me too with an inexpensive equipment) to find the darkest skies around Belo Horizonte, sleeping 2 hours, going to work destroyed, producing quite nice images and I get half the  likes than yours, triggers some questions in my mind.

You would do the same if you were in my situation.

Cheers
Edited 19 Jun, 2019 21:47
eigenVector
19 Jun, 2019 22:52
Rodd Dryfoos
Likes are often based on nothing more than nothing more than popularity…

Wow, I've seen many of crybabies in my life… not sure why, but honestly I didn't expect to see one here…

smile
rob77
19 Jun, 2019 23:24
Connor Matherne
EDIT: Didn't realize these were posted at the same time (03.05.19 and 03.09.19, IOTD selected on 03.21.19). Regardless it should not matter if one image gets IOTD and one doesn't. Much less, how many likes your images receive. Of course popularity plays a roll. Next, you're going to tell me you get upset if a celebrity on Instagram uploads an image of their dog from their cellphone and it gets more like than a picture of your dog with your DSLR and lighting setup. Give me a break.Don't turn your hobby into a constant competition or you're bound to get disappointed
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as well your imaging style.
I'm calling myself out of astrobin after nearly 8 years, just asked the account permanent deletion.
No need to stay here anymore; it became nothing more nothing less than facebook which is something that, as far as I understood, we wanted to avoid 4 years ago with the "big" restyling.

I asked many times to remove the likes exactly because they give fuel to a facebookean competition. And in a certain way I'm right: go around there and you'll see many users commenting other users which in turn likes their images and so on.
At this point, I prefer staying on facebook, a single platform easy to handle.
Edited 19 Jun, 2019 23:27
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 00:54
Carastro
Rodd Dryfoos
What about likes?  I think there are 2 main reasons poeple "like" an image 1 is the image is good and they judge it in teh same manner that the judges do for the IOTD.  The second reason is that they know or like the imager.
There is a 3rd reason.  I like images also when I know the user is either learning, or coping with some particularly difficult circumstances yet has still managed to produce a fairly decent image even if it is not TP quality.  I think sometimes people also need encouragement.

Carole
  True–but not a large percentage for most people I don't think
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 00:56
Daniel Nobre
Rodd Dryfoos
Likes are often based on nothing more than nothing more than popularity.  All images posted to the forum should be done so anonymously for the first week. Astrophotographers rankings should be based on these blind likes.  All to often I find examples of images that get 2-300 likes that are not as good as, or only marginally better than images of the same target that get 40-60 likes.I have a plethora of examples that I would like to post here (if that is even possible) but I would want them to be posted in blind fashion.  No need for names to be visible.Rodd

As far as comments like "forget about likes..do it for enjoyment" or comments in that vein…..sure, lets just do away with likes altogether.  Or better yet, lets find a better way of roughly judging the quality of an image.

Well

Mr. Rodd Dryfoos and Mr. Roberto Colombari…my name is scattered all over this thread. Thats the "blind fashion" you guys want to do?

Now, Ill ask… Is something personal against my name? Because I felt that I have NO history and ZERO background in Astrobin…whats going on? Im feeling very offended here.

Ill continue to put my Gallery here in Astrobin, because I paid for that. My gear is simple, but my passion for Astrophotography is huge, and some people even outside of Astrobin see my efforts, and a lot of Astrobin members give likes at my images and so what? Whats the problem about that? But, you are drawing a context about me that I think is very close to neglect my name.

With likes or without, they will make ZERO difference for me; I just want to say Thank You to all my friends I have done here and for all their amazing motivation.

Daniel Nobre.
  You should learn to read and be specific–I refrained from using any name, including yours because I knew people would be overly sensitive.  So I don't appreciate the accusation.  I have no control over what others post.
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 00:58
Roberto Colombari
Connor Matherne
EDIT: Didn't realize these were posted at the same time (03.05.19 and 03.09.19, IOTD selected on 03.21.19). Regardless it should not matter if one image gets IOTD and one doesn't. Much less, how many likes your images receive. Of course popularity plays a roll. Next, you're going to tell me you get upset if a celebrity on Instagram uploads an image of their dog from their cellphone and it gets more like than a picture of your dog with your DSLR and lighting setup. Give me a break.Don't turn your hobby into a constant competition or you're bound to get disappointed
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it as well your imaging style.
I'm calling myself out of astrobin after nearly 8 years, just asked the account permanent deletion.
No need to stay here anymore; it became nothing more nothing less than facebook which is something that, as far as I understood, we wanted to avoid 4 years ago with the "big" restyling.

I asked many times to remove the likes exactly because they give fuel to a facebookean competition. And in a certain way I'm right: go around there and you'll see many users commenting other users which in turn likes their images and so on.
At this point, I prefer staying on facebook, a single platform easy to handle.
  Don't Roberto–your mastery is unquestioned.  Look over the low thinkers.  Come on chap….don't go
Rodd
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 01:01
Jonathan W MacCollum
Rodd Dryfoos
Likes are often based on nothing more than nothing more than popularity…
Wow, I've seen many of crybabies in my life… not sure why, but honestly I didn't expect to see one here…

smile
  Easy for you to say you either get a lot of likes, or its doesn't matter because you do not have the skills…..I don't know I have no idea who you are.  But I have a clue for you……it ain't sour grapes when the grapes are sour
JohnnyBellisario
20 Jun, 2019 01:03
Michael Timm
I believe you misinterpret the term 'like'. The number of likes says nothing about the "quality" of the image
I completely agree, the button says "like" not "vote".  Were all at different parts of the curve and all are limited in what equipment we can afford.  Likes are simply a way to encourage each other. Although, I can sympathize with others about IOTD, TOP PICKS, RATING, & trending ranks; at the end of the day(literally) we all put endless heart, time, money, and care into these images despite the fact that we receive little to no award, pay, or even recognition.  So anytime something like IOTD pops up we all are drawn to it sparking competstive emotions.  We have to keep in mind that the IOTD and top pics are nothing other then a big like from fellow astrophgraphers.  As for trending astrophotographers, again the only value which it holds is that which each user gives it.  I believe the website was built as a place to share, encourage, collaborate, learn, and make some friends in this relatively small community.  Let's not sully this by turning it into a competition and simply rejoice that we even social media devoted to those who share this similar interest.
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 01:04
Roberto Colombari
Next, you're going to tell me you get upset if a celebrity on Instagram uploads an image of their dog from their cellphone and it gets more like than a picture of your dog with your DSLR and lighting setup. Give me a break.Don't turn your hobby into a constant competition or you're bound to get disappointed
that is a ridiculous example–THAT IS a popularity contest.  This should not be.  This should be an evaluation of acquisition and processing skills–both of which are empirical.  A better example is 2 students hand in the same test and answered in similar fashion and one gets a C and the other an A
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 01:08
John Michael Bell...
I completely agree, the button says "like" not "vote"
I completely disagree–show me an image that gets 300 likes that is not a decent, probably great image.  the vast majority of great images get a lot of likes.  My complaint is not that they get a lot of likes–the complaint is that images of similar quality get 10x less likes.
eigenVector
20 Jun, 2019 01:44
Rodd Dryfoos
…  But I have a clue for you……it ain't sour grapes when the grapes are sour
What?  It's a like button… You click it if you like the image… You don't if you don't… No one has ever claimed an image is good by the the number of likes, and whining about isn't helping your case.
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 02:23
Jonathan W MacCollum
Rodd Dryfoos
…  But I have a clue for you……it ain't sour grapes when the grapes are sour
What?  It's a like button… You click it if you like the image… You don't if you don't… No one has ever claimed an image is good by the the number of likes, and whining about isn't helping your case.
of course the number of likes is related to image quality.  Maybe not if general people are viewing but astrophotographers are viewing (for the most part).
rob77
20 Jun, 2019 02:31
Ok. No one claimed that the image quality is given by the number of likes but there is a ranking based exactly on the number of likes.

Matherne would tell me: don't care about the ranking. Sure, why don't we take it out of the game since we have clear examples that likes are given based on the social activity of a user in the community?

Come on. Let's don't hide behind a finger: if we remove the like counter on the images 80% of the comments and likes that I see every day in the timeline will disappear. Astrobin by now is seen as a competition, no way
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 02:37
eigenVector
20 Jun, 2019 02:38
Rodd Dryfoos
of course the number of likes is related to image quality.  Maybe not if general people are viewing but astrophotographers are viewing (for the most part).

That's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another.  Most reputable people I have encountered here don't seek to grow based on how many likes they have versus others but how they can learn from others who image with similar gear or in similar conditions.  This has been a very encouraging and positive group of people and clicking that thumbs up button is merely one of many ways to share a quick "I like what you are doing here, I like what I am seeing." It's not a measuring device of quality by any means.  It's a social form of communication. It's not grapes.
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 02:47
Jonathan W MacCollum
Rodd Dryfoos
of course the number of likes is related to image quality.  Maybe not if general people are viewing but astrophotographers are viewing (for the most part).
That's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another.  Most reputable people I have encountered here don't seek to grow based on how many likes they have versus others but how they can learn from others who image with similar gear or in similar conditions.  This has been a very encouraging and positive group of people and clicking that thumbs up button is merely one of many ways to share a quick "I like what you are doing here, I like what I am seeing." It's not a measuring device of quality by any means.  It's a social form of communication. It's not grapes.
it not a question of encouraging it that is the way it is. I submit that if you put a well processed image in comparison to a poorly processed, out if ficus( whatever) image, the well processed image will get many more likes. I would bet my life on it
rob77
20 Jun, 2019 02:48
Jonathan W MacCollum
That's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another.

The main ranking based on likes is for what? Telling us who is the nicer in the community?
eigenVector
20 Jun, 2019 02:50
Roberto Colombari
Jonathan W MacCollum
That's in your own head. You can do something about that. Neither this site nor the community has shown any evidence towards encouraging a like-based measurement of how one image compares to another.
The main ranking based on likes is for what? Telling us who is the nicer in the community?

It tells us who is "trending" it's literally in the name. It's also the last item in the menu and honestly didn't even know it was a thing until after a year on this site. There's not much on the way of encouraging people to even go look at that list.
The stream of "activity" is front and center along with iotd, and top picks are right behind it. There is no page for "most likes" (maybe the search will let you use it for sorting perhaps? I haven't looked.)
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 02:58
rob77
20 Jun, 2019 03:11
Exactly. It's in the name itself:

to generate or attract a lot of interest or attention especially online and in social media

It's quite clear to me that this ranking is pretty connected/directly proportional to the quality of the author's images. It couldn't be different
_____________________________________________

Anyway, let's forget it and turn the page.
For what concerns to me I'm off. Going to bed right now and hopefully tomorrow my account will be shut down.
I'll deal with it and find another solution which will most likely be Facebook. I've a good bunch of astrophotographers as friends. Posting here or there it's pretty the same for me.

If you are comfortable with the community as it is now, I'm not.

Cheers
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 03:14
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 04:12
Roberto Colombari
Going to bed right now and hopefully tomorrow my account will be shut down.
smile
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 04:13
 
This topic was closed by a moderator.