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I agree

Likes

Kirchen
20 Jun, 2019 09:00
Hi,
forget the likes , forget the IPOD. Bullshit!
Likes and IPOD receive almost same User .
Im just here cause the enlargment of the Picture . That all !

have nice Day
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 10:43
UN73
20 Jun, 2019 09:48
hi guys,

i don´t really see a point in this discussion. what exactly do likes mean to you? likes are not a thorough judgement of the pic or serve as a real comparison.

there are so many factors that play a role, the quality of the pic is merely one of them, others are for example the number of astrofriends you have, how many users follow you, what weekday or time you post the pic, whether you post the astrobinlinked pic in other astroforums, whether you like other pics often or rarely, how many people scan the forum after a pic was uploaded, whether they had the same target recently etc. that´s normal human behaviour.

someone posts a pic simply of his new mount or other equipment and gets 50 likes within a short time. i don´t understand what´s so interesting about a piece of equipment, unless it has an interesting astrobackground like the night sky. but so what? someone posts a pic with strong vignetting, other gradients and a strong background tint and gets several dozen likes. so what? they obviously know many other users, there are sympathies or whatever. sometimes i suddenly get a handful of new likes because someone scanned through my pics, liked one and it jumps up in the global stream where others see the pic for the first time (i personally use the time based stream, not the global one). no one has time to scan through all of the pics continously. probably only a small fraction of the users are here very often. and there are always plenty of very good pics coming in daily, so many of them slip through simply because many users only pop by from time to time. and to believe that all the users looking at pics see themselves as judges and say: "this one is slightly better than this one, so the first gets a like, the second one not", is just not the case. that would be more stressful than just enjoying the pics. the forum is a never ending stream of good pics.

for me likes only serve one purpose: i don´t want to get the feeling that the pic is posted into nirvana and is ignored, especially if i like it and have spent quite some time on it. i´d find just a few likes disappointing, once it´s over ten i´m satisfied, once it´s over twenty it falls into the category of "many". perhaps not the scale for others especially if the pictures are very good but seriously what´s the reason to complain if you get 100 likes for a pic and someone else 180 even if the picture is less excellent? i´d suggest to be more relaxed and simply think in categories of low, medium or high number of likes for your pic. people with good equipment, long dark skys, good techniques will have higher expectations but if you get 50+ likes or whatever why not simply be happy and that´s it?

for me this is not a likes competition and i wouldn´t want the pics posted to be anonymized for a while. i also wouldn´t want the like button to disappear, as i want to know that the picture is noticed. concerning the top picks or pic of the day: in my mind this is unneccessary and makes the whole thing too much competitive especially as it is hard to judge between a very good pic and a very good pic. would probably make more sense if instead of this half a dozen pics or whatever a day would be labelled "excellent current pics" and loaded into a special astrobin forum continously. then users could look through a concentrated daily upload of superb pics including older ones if they wish. of course people might still complain why their picture wasn´t uploaded there but hey, astrophotography is supposed to be a pleasureable hobby not a fight.

bye,ulf
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 11:35
UN73
would probably make more sense if instead of this half a dozen pics or whatever a day would be labelled "excellent current pics" and loaded into a special astrobin forum continously.
I like this idea smile

But I have to cock my head and wonder at your cutoff for "many" likes–20 to me is not many for a really good image. I will say it again–post a truly great image (not HST data though) and an image that is not nearly as good–average, say, and the image that is great will get far more likes.  Do not include a name and use the same equipment to take out that bias.  The great image will get many, many, many more likes than the poorer image.  No question.  This means 1 thing…..likes are a way of judging an image.

And to cut off any "what is good?" debate–an image that is processed properly (low noise without evidence of noise suppression, no artifacts, proper palette for RGB images, processed using the tenants of good image processing, photographed using the tenants of good landscape photography (the closest corollary), not over sharpened, appropriate contrast (no black point clipping or over saturation), proper star color, etc, etc, etc.
Rodd
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 11:39
Kirchen Claude
Hi,forget the likes , forget the IPOD. Bullshit!
Likes and IPOD receive almost same User .
Im just here cause the enlargment of the Picture . That all !

have nice Day
  You can always zoom (if I get your meaning).  But, the fewer the words, the wiser oft times.  Probably goof advise.
Rodd
rob77
20 Jun, 2019 12:20
[OT] What should I do to have my account deleted besides writing in the astrobin contact form?
DavideCoverta
20 Jun, 2019 13:14
https://youtu.be/X9_n8jakvWU
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
20 Jun, 2019 13:24
Hello all,

This topic is getting quite weird with those last personnal attacks…  smile

The initial proposal was "let's finish with the like system".  If there is a doubt about users' opinion, the simplest way to be sure would be a quick pool on that question… but it seems pretty obvious that a large majority of AB users will prefer to keep the actual system.

In my opinion, the "like" button has only one meaning : to tell the author I like his image… pretty obvious indeed ! smile

By clicking on "like", I'm not saying to the author "your picture is within the bests", or "you are a great astrophotographer", or "IOTD in my opinion", or anything else… just that I like his picture.

I can "like" great images, or breathtaking, or just-above-average images made by friends, or even very simple and "poor-quality" (compared to highest standards) images made by beguinners that deserve to be encouraged.

It would be a great loss for those who use the "like" button in this way if that functionnality was abandoned.

As it has been already said, "likes" have nothing to do with image objective quality : this is the purpose of Top Picks and Image of the Day, which are not chosen on a like-counter basis.

Maybe you have to consider as I do that the number of "like" on an image is not to be compared with the number of likes of other users' images on the same object, but only with the number of likes on your own other images.

In my personal case, my less ranked image has only 1 like (and clearly deserve it ! smile ), the best ranked nearly 300. I noted that, for a "normal" image (not a bad one, but nothing really special either), I usually receive about 70/80 likes. This "average number" is mostly defined by your "community" ie your number of followers, or said in an other way, your "popularity". Then, the only signification I give to the number of "likes" for one of my images is "has it been less or more appreciate by the others than it usualy is"… that's all. The difference (positive or negative) with this "average number of likes", is a good indicator for the quality of your image.

But compare the number of "likes" with other users' images is not relevant.

UN73
would probably make more sense if instead of this half a dozen pics or whatever a day would be labelled "excellent current pics" and loaded into a special astrobin forum continously.

Seems it's just what is done today with the "Top Picks" and its dedicated section… smile

Roberto Colombari
[OT] What should I do to have my account deleted besides writing in the astrobin contact form?

Roberto, despite I hope you won't use this function, it's in "my settings" with the "delete account" button (at bottom of page).
Would be a waste if you leave in my opinion…  smile
Facebook is a great place for interactions, but the quality of uploaded images is really poor ; yours deserve better quality !

jb
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 13:43
rob77
20 Jun, 2019 13:40
Thanks. I didn't find it (I am lazy). Gonna delete now
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
20 Jun, 2019 13:42
Roberto Colombari
Thanks. I didn't find it (I am lazy). Gonna delete now

I shouldn't have tell you anything !!   smile

jb
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 13:42
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 13:57
Jean-Baptiste Auroux
This topic is getting quite weird with those last personal attacks…
If you refer to the word Goof–that was a goof–I meant to say good (my typing is not very goof).  Anyway–I disagree–sure some images that are poor but you want to encourage the imager get likes–but not 300–not even 50.  images that get hundreds of likes are good images and the like button means–"This image is good".

Prove me wrong–show me a truly great image that gets 20 likes (not one posted 10 minutes ago obviosuly)
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
20 Jun, 2019 14:08
Rodd Dryfoos
my typing is not very goof)

smile

Rodd Dryfoos
Prove me wrong–show me a truly great image that gets 20 likes (not one posted 10 minutes ago obviosuly)
Not hard to find by the way ; I just have to visit your own gallery… smile

https://astrob.in/360300/H/

Rodd Dryfoos
the like button means–"This image is good".

Once again, I don't agree with that.

"like" is a subjective notion and can depend on many factors inclunding some ones which have nothing to do with quality.
"Good" is an objective judgment.

You can not hope to find any objective conclusion on your images while using a functionnality based on subjectivity…

In the same way, as a reviewer, I can "like" many images per day, but when it comes to choose the images for "Top Picks" I try to have an objective judgment on each image, and to not take into account my "subjective biases".

JB
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 14:24
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 14:20
Jean-Baptiste Auroux
Rodd Dryfoos
my typing is not very goof)
smile

Rodd Dryfoos
Prove me wrong–show me a truly great image that gets 20 likes (not one posted 10 minutes ago obviosuly)
Not hard to find by the way ; I just have to visit your own gallery… smile

https://astrob.in/360300/H/

Rodd Dryfoos
the like button means–"This image is good".

Once again, I don't agree with that.

"like" is a subjective notion and can depend on many factors inclunding some ones which have nothing to do with quality.
"Good" is an objective judgment.

You can not hope to find any objective conclusion on your images with using a functionnality based on subjectivity…

JB
  Thank you…….kind of my point.   But I appreciate it
Rodd
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 14:23
Jean-Baptiste Auroux
Rodd Dryfoos
my typing is not very goof)
smile

Rodd Dryfoos
Prove me wrong–show me a truly great image that gets 20 likes (not one posted 10 minutes ago obviosuly)
Not hard to find by the way ; I just have to visit your own gallery… smile

https://astrob.in/360300/H/

Rodd Dryfoos
the like button means–"This image is good".

Once again, I don't agree with that.

"like" is a subjective notion and can depend on many factors inclunding some ones which have nothing to do with quality.
"Good" is an objective judgment.

You can not hope to find any objective conclusion on your images with using a functionnality based on subjectivity…

JB
Definitely disagree–I already explained that judging processing quality and acquisition quality is for the most part not subjective.   When people see sharpening artifiacts around stars–they alnost univversally say–"that is not right"  or they do not really know about processing.  Image quality IS NOT SUBJECTIVE
Rodd
eigenVector
20 Jun, 2019 14:26
Roberto Colombari
Thanks. I didn't find it (I am lazy). Gonna delete now

I can't say that I know you at all, but know this: your images have honestly been an inspiration to me personally. It's sad you decided to leave for such reasons posted in this thread.

smile
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 14:26
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
20 Jun, 2019 14:31
Rodd Dryfoos
Image quality IS NOT SUBJECTIVE

Sorry Rodd, I am not english speaker, so maybe I was not clear : that is exactly the same that I was saying ! smile

A "good" picture is (more obviously in astrophotography) can mostly be seen as an objective notion.

But "likes" are not objective.

That's why you can not make a connection beetween "likes" and "quality".

Hopefully, that's not how AB works for its reward process.

JB
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 14:43
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 14:44
Jean-Baptiste Auroux
Rodd Dryfoos
Image quality IS NOT SUBJECTIVE
Sorry Rodd, I am not english speaker, so maybe I was not clear : that is exactly the same that I was saying ! smile

A "good" picture is (more obviously in astrophotography) an objective notion.

But "likes" are not objective.

That's why you can not make a connection beetween "likes" and "quality".

Hopefully, that's not how AB works for its reward process.

JB
You are doing very well–I did not even realize that English was not your first language.  Regarding the like button..its ok to disagree.  I think the like button is related  to objectivity–for most astrophotographers.  You disagree.  There is only one way to convince the other, and that is do a test.  Lets pick a really good image and a fair image and see which one gets more likes
Rodd
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
20 Jun, 2019 15:20
Rodd Dryfoos
Definitely disagree–I already explained that judging processing quality and acquisition quality is for the most part not subjective.   When people see sharpening artifiacts around stars–they alnost univversally say–"that is not right"  or they do not really know about processing.  Image quality IS NOT SUBJECTIVE

As I said, I mostly agree to that. In astrophoto, the quality of an image is mostly an objective notion.
But not "totally objective" though.

For technical aspects of acquisition and processing, it is very clear that it can be appreciate on objective basis (stars aspect, noise, quality of guiding,etc.).

But many of fundamental aspects of processing, which have a great influence on the final result and therefore on others' appreciation, are very subjective : colors, saturation, details improvement, contrast, luminosity… The most obvious illustration of this, is the kind of "cliveage" between those who appreciate "soft processing" and the proponents of "hard processing".

Give the same (good) data to 20 good image processors, and you will find 20 clearly different images at the end of the day.
Yet, each one of them will have treated the image so that it corresponds to his own "ideal of quality".

One example with the recent Chilescope processing contest (http://www.chilescope.com/image-gallery/35/) : 69 entrants, 69 images with common points but also with different approaches.

A great many of those 69 images can be called "good images" on objective basis.
Yet the subjective choices that have been made by different processors will lead some people to regard a given image as "good" and others not…

JB
Edited 20 Jun, 2019 15:28
RAD
20 Jun, 2019 15:28
Jean-Baptiste Auroux
Rodd Dryfoos
Definitely disagree–I already explained that judging processing quality and acquisition quality is for the most part not subjective.   When people see sharpening artifiacts around stars–they alnost univversally say–"that is not right"  or they do not really know about processing.  Image quality IS NOT SUBJECTIVE
As I said, I mostly agree to that. In astrophoto, the quality of an image is mostly an objective notion.
But not "totally objective" though.

For technical aspects of acquisition and processing, it is very clear that it can be appreciate on objective basis (star, noise, quality of guiding…smile.

But many of fundamental aspects of processing, which have a great influence on the final result and therefor on others' appreciation, are very subjective : colors, saturation, details improvments and contrast, luminosity…

Give the same (good) data to 20 good image processors, and you will find 20 clearly different images at the end.

Yet each one of them will have treated the image so that it corresponds to its ideal of quality.

One example with the recent Chilescope processing contest (http://www.chilescope.com/image-gallery/35/) : 69 entrants, 69 images with common points but also with different approaches.

A great many of those 69 images can be called "good images" on objective basis.
Yet the subjective choices that have been made by different processors will lead some people to regard a given image as "good" and others not…

JB
  My real point in the beginning was more related to a great image of a target getting 300 likes and a very good image of the same target getting 20 likes.  Or, a pretty decent image getting  150 likes and a much better image getting 50 likes.

And yes–all of lets say 10 images will be great images but slightly different.  They will garner the same number of likes in the long run…pretty much, give or take.  My concern is with an image that is arguably better than another getting far less likes.

But I tire of this…..I just don't like broccoli and there is nothing you can say that will change my mind! (Not true–I do like brocoli) but I do believe it is time to  move on.
UN73
20 Jun, 2019 17:07
Rodd Dryfoos
But I have to cock my head and wonder at your cutoff for "many" likes–20 to me is not many for a really good image.

yeah, that´s what i meant with that users that regularly post very good pics surely have a different scale or expectation. my scale comes from my experience gathered here. when i was rather new in the forum for example i posted this pic https://astrob.in/372175/0/ and only received a handful of likes which stayed like that for quite some time. i wondered about that, as i didn´t judge it to bad esp. for using a zoom lens and having just an average sky. when i began being more active in the forum more likes came in also for older pics. my point is that a picture is judged only partially by the pic itself. if a user regularly receives 40 - 50 likes he´ll probably have different expectations when posting a new pic concerning what "many" likes mean but in the end it´s only a question of defining what low-, medium- or high numbers are for oneself and not a direct comparison to other pictures as there are many factors playing a role.

bye,
ulf
Snjór
20 Jun, 2019 22:08
Few things I sure of, if polite, if engage other users, if follow others, if comment  images and PM people for sure get more likes. I say  part of my minimal skills as result other users here offered assistance via comment or PM or email as result I friend them, comment on image of do like.

I get some images a lot of likes, some not so much, as vote is crowdsourcesd is as is. Some  I take deserve 0 and that what I deserve. Some  bad ones get a few likes, but comments and I engage person make comment for help or idea, and learn a lot this way!

I not need likes be happy with image, if feel did best as can and learn something I ok with that if no one like it.

Salvatore make wonderful site to share amazing images, enjoy it. It not a competition just a place to.share, do best as can with what have and meet friends with similar interests! Is a joy and blessing.

Bless bless,
Sigga
Edited 21 Jun, 2019 11:25
Mstiles
21 Jun, 2019 01:32
Very well said Sigga.. smile
Jean-Baptiste_Paris
21 Jun, 2019 06:48
NorthField
Very well said Sigga.. smile

+1

To be social and friendly in a community is a basic rule of life, not only a specific rule on AB to improve your like-counter ! smile

jb
carastro
21 Jun, 2019 07:02
NorthField
Very well said Sigga..
Ditto

I think it is very sad to make such a big issue out of likes.  People like for different reasons, it is not the B all and End all of Astrobin.  Just enjoy what the site has to offer and although I have some gripes about the way IOTD works, I have been there and done that, and given up on that and just enjoy the positive things that this site offers.

I don't see how you can complain about number of likes as people will like or not like as they see fit.  As others have said above, being on the site for a while and getting to know more people by interaction, will in turn create more likes.  It's how it seems to work.

By the way I would NOT like to see likes removed as at least I feel a few people have acknowledged my efforts.

Carole
Edited 21 Jun, 2019 07:04
nvcchr1
22 Jun, 2019 11:57
IMHO. I press "LIKE" if I like the/a picture. I do it a lot because I …. . As simple as that😊
CS Niels
Godiex
22 Jun, 2019 13:39
Thank goodness  there are women in this site.  smile))

I can't believe the amount of emotions and mental energy spent in a silly ego competition, when we are PHOTOGRAPHING THE  FREAKING  COSMOS!

LOve to you all,
Diego
Edited 22 Jun, 2019 14:45
 
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