Michael S.:
Excuse me - you forgot all those thousand images from the commercial remote scope sites - I would order those into "pro grade" too in, cause just downloading data taken from those scopes under the best skies on the planets with perfect equipment counts for me too as "pro grade" and not just data from HST, Subaru and so on. THEN you percentage jumps up very very much.Very quick check - from the last 7 IOTD it is 4:3, so 4 really selfmade in the own garden or so, 3 remote/pro grade. So very different to your percentage.
I really can't understand why there is such a high grade of emotion in this discussion - don't see the "problem", it is so simple for my point of view - just use selfmade images, either on own private ground or driving out to a dark place and exclued all those commercial remote scopes + pro grade data (HST, Subaru, Chile…smile and that's it, very simple. For those there is the much much more prestigious APOD which could be well and even better marketed for those commercial remote sites.
best regards
Hi Michael,
I would not consider that "pro". Chilescope is not pro data. It is a project made by a handful of professional and amateur astronomers (their own description). I collaborated and rented mainly the 500mm Newtonian. I plan the acquisition just as I do at home with Sequence Generator Pro. The great advantage is the chilian sky of course. But you have to squee your session of the target between other people, sometimes the target is low in the sky, but it's the only place available. You plan something and the session is canceled due to clouds, you have to wait a few weeks to finish because the moon is up and there is no place to rent. Sometimes technical issues can intervene and the subs cannot be used. It was new moon and the sky was perfect, but you have to reprogram. The guys are always helpful, but you make it sound like it all happens so easily. And the tradeoff is that what you gain in terms of sky, you lose in terms of exposure. You cannot do deep exposures like 10+ hours, it would cost a lot. You cannot choose the camera orientation. So generally you try to manage with 3-6h exposures, the sky allows for that. The 1m is clearly unreachable as an amateur material, but when you see an 8h exposure of a nebula with 1m RC let me know.
Of course I agree that judges should use a different standard for those images, but I think they do. I saw Andy's recommendations once and it was clear that the image from a remote site should be technically perfect. Please look at the images produced with the 500mm from Chilescope: not everything is the same, not everything will be IOTD. I think the judges should place the bar higher for those sources than they do for backyard. But what matters is the beauty of the final image, its artistic value.
Secondly, I see that you have a home observatory in a Bortle 4 zone. I don't, and I have to install / uninstall everything and I am in a Bortle 8 zone (we had a bad cloudy winter too). Don't you think you have an advantage over me? If you produce a beautiful image that's greatly processed and has an impact, congrats, I'm not going to ask for a special category.
All best,
Bogdan
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Hi All,
This is my take on it, If you own and operate your own remote observatory and all the pain and agro that goes with it, then it is no more different that sitting in your home operating your scope in the garden, in fact it is more problematic as when something goes wrong it usually entails a very long drive or flight.
However in my opinion HST or similar and non owned equipment remote sites like DeepSkyWest should not be included.
Alberto, I have looked through your gallery and it would appear that you have more to lose as nearly all your images are from DeepSkyWest or HST, so you know how to very expertly managed an image, but where is the merit, you have loads of TP's and IOTD, yet I see none from your own captures and setting up.
There is a check box when you upload an image saying whether you wish to include it or not for judging, perhaps you might check this box and only submit images that you have actually set up and captured, as well as all the headaches that go with it.
This is just my opinion and I can categorically state that I will continue to walk around as a zombie with bloodshot eyes through lack of sleep rather than convince myself to use a remote site or professional data to publish and expect an award, in England we would say that "it isn't Cricket Old Boy".    |
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John Kulin:
Hi All,This is my take on it, If you own and operate your own remote observatory and all the pain and agro that goes with it, then it is no more different that sitting in your home operating your scope in the garden, in fact it is more problematic as when something goes wrong it usually entails a very long drive or flight.
However in my opinion HST or similar and non owned equipment remote sites like DeepSkyWest should not be included.
Alberto, I have looked through your gallery and it would appear that you have more to lose as nearly all your images are from DeepSkyWest or HST, so you know how to very expertly managed an image, but where is the merit, you have loads of TP's and IOTD, yet I see none from your own captures and setting up.
There is a check box when you upload an image saying whether you wish to include it or not for judging, perhaps you might check this box and only submit images that you have actually set up and captured, as well as all the headaches that go with it.
This is just my opinion and I can categorically state that I will continue to walk around as a zombie with bloodshot eyes through lack of sleep rather than convince myself to use a remote site or professional data to publish and expect an award, in England we would say that "it isn't Cricket Old Boy". Agree completely. Own remote observatories are OK
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John Kulin:
This is just my opinion and I can categorically state that I will continue to walk around as a zombie with bloodshot eyes through lack of Seems that IOTD is effort driven, the more you shed blood - the bigger chances you should have to get IOTDS. Stated that one suggestion that can be made to Salvatore is a form for annexing an image of the author having slept no more than 2 hours otherwise his/her image won't be eligible to any reward here on the site
I am amazed at what you take away from various posts.
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Good morning Rodd, glad I'm amazing you. That's a good start for the day! Case in point!
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John Kulin:
This is just my opinion and I can categorically state that I will continue to walk around as a zombie with bloodshot eyes through lack of Seems that IOTD is effort driven, the more you shed blood - the bigger chances you should have to get IOTDS. Stated that one suggestion that can be made to Salvatore is a form for annexing an image of the author having slept no more than 2 hours otherwise his/her image won't be eligible to any reward here on the site
Blimey Roberto, only two hours then? You most certainly deserve a dozen IOTD with such little sleep.
Does it count if you have grand children, do you get a bonus then |
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Last I checked, cricket was arguably one of the most corrupt ‘sports’ going, riven as it is with gambling scandals, cheating players and revolting ‘sledging’ that would get you arrested if you tried it in public. I don’t have a great deal of experience, but most of the cricket enthusiasts with whom I have come into contact have been folks only masquerading as gentlemen. 😜
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Steve Milne:
Last I checked, cricket was arguably one of the most corrupt ‘sports’ going, riven as it is with gambling scandals, cheating players and revolting ‘sledging’ that would get you arrested if you tried it in public. I don’t have a great deal of experience, but most of the cricket enthusiasts with whom I have come into contact have been folks only masquerading as gentlemen. 😜
Like you Steve, I don't have a great deal of experience, but if as you say Steve Milne:
arguably one of the most corrupt ‘sports’ going, riven as it is with gambling scandals, cheating players and revolting ‘sledging’ that would get you arrested if you tried it in public Then what hope do we have as Astronomers!  I suppose it is OK as long as someone doesn't try to rub one of my scopes into their crutch! |
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Ahahahah sure! I have 2 and currently they are literally breaking my house while I am trying to work lol
Ah Roberto, sadly my 4 grand children aren't allowed to visit as we are still in Lockdown and my wife is not well, I suppose that is why we are all creating mischief on here! 8)
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John Kulin:
Steve Milne:
Last I checked, cricket was arguably one of the most corrupt ‘sports’ going, riven as it is with gambling scandals, cheating players and revolting ‘sledging’ that would get you arrested if you tried it in public. I don’t have a great deal of experience, but most of the cricket enthusiasts with whom I have come into contact have been folks only masquerading as gentlemen. 😜 Like you Steve, I don't have a great deal of experience, but if as you say Steve Milne:
arguably one of the most corrupt ‘sports’ going, riven as it is with gambling scandals, cheating players and revolting ‘sledging’ that would get you arrested if you tried it in public Then what hope do we have as Astronomers! I suppose it is OK as long as someone doesn't try to rub one of my scopes into their crutch!
Can we at least agree that cricket is even more boring than an Astrobin IOTD/TP/Likes thread? (They do both seem to go on for far too long - often with no clear result.) |
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Totally agree Steve. Let this one die.
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Bogdan Borz:
Secondly, I see that you have a home observatory in a Bortle 4 zone. I don't, and I have to install / uninstall everything and I am in a Bortle 8 zone (we had a bad cloudy winter too). Don't you think you have an advantage over me? If you produce a beautiful image that's greatly processed and has an impact, congrats, I'm not going to ask for a special category.All best,
Bogdan
Hi Bogdan!
My bad, actually I'm (sadly) already living in a Bortle 5 zone, just have been to lazy with my newer images, just copying the equipment from older images, to change that.
;-)
best regards
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Michael S.:
Bogdan Borz:
Secondly, I see that you have a home observatory in a Bortle 4 zone. I don't, and I have to install / uninstall everything and I am in a Bortle 8 zone (we had a bad cloudy winter too). Don't you think you have an advantage over me? If you produce a beautiful image that's greatly processed and has an impact, congrats, I'm not going to ask for a special category.All best,Bogdan
Hi Bogdan!
My bad, actually I'm (sadly) already living in a Bortle 5 zone, just have been to lazy with my newer images, just copying the equipment from older images, to change that.
;-)
best regards
Ha ha be careful Michael, you might end up in the wrong category with the under 4 guys. I think my sky improved recently with the lockdown, I see a bit more stars, which is great, I hope it lasts.
CS
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Steve Milne:
Can we at least agree that cricket is even more boring than an Astrobin IOTD/TP/Likes thread? (They do both seem to go on for far too long - often with no clear result.)
Be careful Steve or someone let fly with beamer!
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Uwe Deutermann:
? Of course you cannot compete against HST or remote data with your backyard images. Having them mixed together for a competition Maybe that's why you see such polarisation on this topic, a difference in perception. I don't think of IOTD as a competition rather an acknowledgement of a nice image.
I hear you Richard, and yes, that causes polarisation. And you are correct, it is an acknowledgment of your work, and I would be dishonest saying that I would not be proud of at least a Top Pic 😊.
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Uwe Deutermann:
Where is your problem? Of course you cannot compete against HST or remote data with your backyard images. Having them mixed together for a competition From a probabilistic point of view, it is very unlikely that you'll get in "competition" with pro data, looking at the percentage that Bogdan posted.
Moreover, I can tell you that I'm pretty sure that we, judges, will never promote a "standard" HST image. Alberto's one has been IOTD because of his excellent processing.
Cheers
Hi Roberto! I am all with the judges on the IOTDs, they are all wonderful and everybody does a great job! I cannot even imagine to do the work to go through all the images, there are so many, so I am thankful for the volunteers. And my post was not meant to degrade in any form those selections, if that came across I did not express myself well. And I do not think that the original post by Rodd was meant like that either, but I do not want to put words in Rodd's mouth. I for myself would love to see 2 IOTDs per day 😊😊.
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Die Launische Diva:
Uwe,Some context is needed before someone express his/her opinion regarding this thread: The Image Of The Day is an image picked daily from volunteers, on a site dedicated to a niche hobby called astrophotography. Only 0.38% of the IOTDs are from professional data. IOTD isn't something that important for anyone to mention in his/her résumé or CV.
That being said by someone having one of the cheapest astrophotography gear available . My flat panel is the most expensive part of my equipment. It also plays the role of a laptop . I don't process professional data because they're hard, and require some research on my side to start with  .
Cheers and Clear Skies!
Hi! See also my reply to Roberto. On your reply: I read the thread before I posted it, so please do not assume that I did not (maybe you did not mean it as an insult, words can come across badly very quickly). I assume that you also read that it is not just HST images that are in question, and this percentage is I assume higher (and please, nobody shall count them, this is just a number). As Richard mentioned, this is a topic where different opinions are present, and there are good and bad reasons for either. I processed HST images for fun as well already (to see if I can get better images using those, and yes, it was better, MUCH better!). But for some reason this is not my desire, even when looking at the great processing of many Astrobiners gives me enjoyment. Hope I came across not in a mean way, we should and shall always be friendly with each other.
P.S.: I know fairly well (not 100%, I agree on that) that there is a competition to get one IOTD, and the only part that I wanted to say is that it is not bad to have that desire. And if there is a distinction between some groups possible, well, if that helps to make people happy, why not? On the other hand (here is the plus/minus again, oh my!), where is the line? Tough one!
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9.90
0.00
0.00
0.90
3.34
11.96
