| Should this post, and other similar posts in the future, be approved? | |
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| Yes | |
| No | |
| Login to vote and view results. |
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Hello Beta Testers! I would like to prompt a discussion to get an understanding of how the community feels about some topics on AstroBin. This is happening because I currently have a forum topic waiting my moderation, and it's from astrophotographers who "explore the universe thru the lens of faith". They are legitimate astrophotographers, but their post has multiple references to the Bible, to faith, to Christianity, and to Heaven. They also link to their website, that is a legitimate showcase of their work as astrophotographers, but has many references to their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. In the post, or on their website, they are not trying to convert anyone, but they make a big deal out of the religious influence on their astrophotography. I'm a bit hesitant about approving this post, because I know that this is a sensitive topic, and AstroBin is a multi-cultural community and I don't want to welcome discussions about religion or politics on it. You only need to go to Facebook to see how each and every IOTD post has comments about God's creations being great, or Allah's creation being great. However, they are legitimate astrophotographers and probably not here to preach sermons and convert people. Here's the content of their post: Hello, fellow astronomy enthusiasts, What are your thoughts? Thanks! Salvatore |
4.13
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This is a tricky one Salvatore. While I have no problem with anyone expressing their religious views in the right forum, I do feel that Astrobin should maintain a purely scientific rather than religious perspective in the posts submitted. Failure to do so runs the risk of provoking conflicting reactions from those who have different religious beliefs. Peter |
3.94
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Wow, a tough one. As you said, they are not offensive or anything, so for that reason I'd say why not post it.... BUT, you also said that you try to keep Astrobin free from politics and religion and this is something I personally highly apprechiate, so from that point of view you should not allow that post to get visible as it will worst case open up discussions in the form of: "Why did you approve this post and not mine.... " So in the end I voted with 'no' Michael |
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| I think that on this site (or in this community of astrofotografers ) it is absolutely incorrect to invite members of this community to other communities or forums, or to expose in any way our political or religion( or sexual) positions and opinions! |
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| It would be opening the door. Once one such topic is approved you will get a host of requests that push the boundaries a bit further than the previous one and you can expect comments along the lines of "You approved requests A, B, C,... Why are you discriminating against my request?" |
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Thanks for raising this important point, which if course is a very sensitive matter. From my perspective each and everyone can believe on what she/he wants and I don't consider offensive or provocative to share what we believe or not believe. The key point is to respect each other's in their beliefs and personal convictions. This is often the true issue. I hope it helps Best, Nicola |
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Oh boy - this is a tough one. I firmly believe that everyone has a right to freedom of thought, and a right to express their faith, as long as the forum is appropriate and no-one is offended or marginalised. I confess to sometimes being overwhelmed by the beauty of the night sky myself, and wonder how it all began, and how different cultures have integrated their observations with their culture and beliefs. In thinking about this question, my first instinct was to visit their website. The images are very nice, and 90% of the content is technical, with a focus on the technical aspects of astrophotography, and astrophotography as art. Each image comes with a brief quote from the Bible, which is gentle and relevant. I'd be perfectly OK if those quotes were contained in descriptions for images posted on Astrobin, and I seriously doubt whether anyone would be offended by them. I also make the point that they are promoting their belief in a divine purpose, as opposed to a particular faith or religion. My second instinct was to visit Astrobin's home page to find an articulation of its core objective - where is says :- Welcome to Astrobin Home of Astrophotography Astrobin is an image hosting platform and social network for astrophotographers. There is no doubt that the Lnth website is also an image hosting platform, and that they are also trying to create a social network, based on sharing their faith - and that is perfectly OK. But I think a line needs to be drawn in cases where an individual or organisation attempts to leverage Astrobin's network for another purpose, or for a purpose that is tangential to Astrobin's core objective of sharing images and technical information. Examples of such a tangential purpose might include promoting your child's school, advertising a local fundraising event, or promoting your church or your faith - or anything not directly related to astrophotography. There is also the risk that accepting this for one will open the floodgates for many. So - I think I would limit any attempt to direct Astrobin users to other sites that include a tangential purpose - no matter how benign or inoffensive. |
11.25
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So I’m a Christian, and an astrophotographer. I’m happy to walk the fine line of my faith vs. science and to be perfectly honest, it’s my opinion that none of either’s beliefs can be 100% proven. When I do public outreach talks, I often reference that space is for everyone, doesn’t matter where you were born or what your beliefs are, just step away from the campfire and look up, you’re going to ask yourself those big questions about life, the Universe & everything, which is awesome! So while I’m happy to bring attention to the objects out there to those with or without faith with my own photographic efforts - (which have appeared in both Apods & sermons alike), I fully respect & appreciate everyone’s enjoyment & beliefs, and feel that there’s probably no need to focus on a singular perspective that is likely to be perceived as divisive on Astrobin; which is by & large a secular community. Maybe just invite them to join Astrobin as individuals, and let the cards fall as they may. CS Andy |
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I don't care what religion someone follows, but one of the great things about astrobin is that I don't have to deal with politics or these types of discussions when I'm zoning with my astrophotography. IMO it should be limited to the science. There are plenty of other places people can share their political and religious views, but not a lot that prune it out. Plus, those with religious views can also appreciate astrobin as not showering them with other faiths. A quiet room is sometimes most inspiring. |
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Don't allow it. I have already seen some comments in the responses here that make me want to pick a fight (not really, because I don't care what people believe and I know better; but the slippery slope is going to be too tempting for many, and then it's a race to the bottom). Freedom of speech rights are usually framed with regards to the government in liberal democracies: you have the right to express an opinion, without the government sanctioning you in any way. A private internet forum can and most certainly should limit speech in order to maintain the peace and fulfill its original objectives. I would strongly encourage you to keep religion/politics out of Astrobin and make it clear that this forum is for astrophotography / astronomy only. PS: having a quote from the Bible or the Quran in an image description doesn't bother me, I see it as the same thing as quoting a poet. Proselytizing should be banned though. |
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| Very tough subject, and I believe allowing this type of post will open a can of worms that will be very hard to contain. |
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Do not allow it. Why? I would consider astrobin to be one of the most peaceful and constructive sites and communities in the web - which is close to a miracle. I think this is because astrobin is about astronomy, its science and the asthetics visualizing it. We might all have our thoughts and believes about physics and religion in astronomy, but astrobin is not about these thoughts and believes. Social media fails big time, when people let their believes and emotions take over, and apparently getting mad in writing posts is much easier and faster than doing so in person. And social media fails in dealing peacefully with controversial believes, plus algorithms do their best to accelerate human anger. I would therefore keep contents out that are focussing on any other topic but astronomy. Arny |
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I came to Astrobin because I was starting to learn about astrophotography, I found it to be a wonderful source of information and a beautiful place to peruse the work of others. Over time I have come to appreciate the focus of this site and I appreciate that it is not cluttered with topics not related, with people making arguments for something other than what I came for. Life used to be a lot simpler and while I appreciate the diversity of what exists in social media my comment would be that this is social media for folks interested in the stars, in astrophotography, and the science of astronomy. We do not need other additives, if anything, I wish there was more science. But one can search that out if one chooses, the other constructs do not need to be part of this site. My vote is a hard no, and I would add, that I would not pay for this site if it became a cluttered room of other subjects, whatever they may be. |
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This is a tough situation but I firmly believe that Astrobin is a forum for astrophotographers to show their works and for others to learn. I fear that opening the door to religious comments might become a slippery slope which could impact the principles of Astrobin. I tell my friends and family that my observatory is my church and star gazing reveals a higher power but I don't extend that to public forums. Certainly there is no room for politics or political discussion on Astrobin. I would explain to them that they are more than welcome to share their images with others on Astrobin but to please keep them independent of their theological beliefs. I would add that astrophotography can be spiritual in nature but do not fuse spiritualty with religion. This is consistent with AL-ANON and Rotary International. Perhaps crafting a policy statement to that affect might help others. |
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Im not a very religious person, but that doesn't mean I don't at least respect those of faith.... I'm indifferent when it comes to limiting those kinds of posts. On the other hand, politics really have no place here IMO. This case however is different to me. They are using your outlet to outwardly promote their outlet. That is where I would draw the line. It feels like free advertising on your dime. I would not allow it. From that perspective, you're not being insensitive or otherwise by rejecting it. |
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As others have said, keep it out of this forum, please. It‘ll just open a floodgate and the ensuing discussions of contrary viewpoints (which can, by their very nature, not be proven) will spiral down into endless arguments. To set a good example, I‘ll refrain from posting my personal views on the topic of religion. |
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| Thank you all for validating my own feelings. The post has been deleted and the user informed about the decision and the reasons behind it. |
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I have no issue with people’s beliefs, but I think Astrobin should stay focused on Astrophotography and Astronomy and stay clear from any attempt at proselytizing. Joe |
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I was late arriving to this conversation but I agree with your decision. As a rule, I abhor censorship but Astrobin clearly states the terms of use when signing up. This community is made up of people from every imaginable culture so keeping religion, politics, sexuality and gender topics off limits only makes sense in todays highly polarized environment. There's more than enough drama on Astrobin with certain astrophotography related topics (i.e. is BlurXterminator cheating). I've largely stepped away from most social media sites because of how people behave. Astrobin is an exception and I fully support your efforts preserve the civility of this community. |
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People can believe in whatever they wish and I have no issue with that. I agree with most of the other comments in that this post seemed more like advertising than what I feel is the intentions of Astrobin. This is a community for sharing our photography and to help others learn how to do the same. It is a great place to visit to ask questions when having issues and I've found the forums to be very helpful (especially dealing with tilt in the Epsilon 160). I believe we should keep the website to those foundations - sharing the results our skills, learning and teaching. I have found that looking through the Equipment explorer has helped me tremendously when deciding if I want to buy equipment. It is a great place to learn what equipment can be capable of. I think it is great that the user of the post in question has such beliefs and I encourage others to stand up and have no shame in sharing those beliefs. However, I don't think that this is the forum for such discussion. I can see such a post (or posts involving politics - especially here in the States) devolving very quickly into an attack on personal beliefs. I like to believe that we as an astro community wouldn't resort to attacks on other's personal beliefs but I don't think the risk/reward is there for allowing such posts. I think we should keep the content focused on the technical details of astrophotography where we can come and learn and share our work. |
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| Please keep evangelism out of this arena. Private belief and faith are one thing, but when it shifts to evangelism and trying to sell others on faith, it crosses a line. |
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Please do not allow it. I'm not opposed to religion, everyone can do as they may (as long as they don't hurt anybody). However, there's other places they can discuss this already and it's impossible to moderate this properly because literally everyone will start wanting their topics approved (be it politics or religion), creating a huge mess and making the experience of people who don't want anything to do with it terrible. |
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| No religion. One bad apple will spoil the barrel, as my grandmother used to say. |
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Hi Salvatore, I personally think that religion (and politics) have no business on the site. Even if it is not offensive, that doesn't mean it isn't necessarily harmless. I would like to send anyone I want to astrobin to view my and others' images, including kids. I don't want any crazies actively recruiting them - and make no mistake - that is why they want to post this stuff. For the rest of us, less impressionable and with our own beliefs, it is simply extremely annoying. Dave |
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One should not dilute science with faith. Next thing the astrologers will discover us ;-) This has already happened with medicine vs. alternative medicine etc. Normal people also only read medicine and this is reinforced because such nonsense is spread in "health magazines" and can also be bought for expensive money in the pharmacy. Recruiting your own portals in someone else's portal is also not a good thing. Siegfried |
