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I am considering either a dye-based (Canon Pro-200) or a pigment-based (Pro-300) printer for astrophotographs. Does anyone have an actual experience with either or both? I will probably print on luster or glossy paper. Thanks, Jerry |
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| I just recently got the epson et 8550. Did some research and the Epson came highly recommended, but also cost efficient on ink. Just got my shipment on metallic paper from Red River Paper as they have ICC profile for the printer as well. Planning to so some prints tomorrow |
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Monty: Is your Epson 8850 a dye-based or pigment-based printer. Have you printed astrophotographs with it? |
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| It has five dye inks (C, M, Y, GY, PB) and one black pigment ink (BK). My first (Astro) print will be tomorrow. |
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I do art shows and a wide range of print media. I currently use the Epson P900 - with Roll feeder. - that uses ink jet dye (10 colors - to provide a wide gamut that can provide deep RGB colors). This post may not address dye vs. ink - but provides some of my lessons learned. Epson and Canon are great printers. Depending on your goals, using a commercial print lab may be much easier and cheaper to get good prints. Having a printer lets me do proofs - but I tend more towards print labs for final images. Printing is quite the experience and takes more work than you would think to get superior prints. You need to calibrate your monitor, and understand printer and paper profiles - otherwise you will be really frustrated with why things don't come out like you expect. The glossier the paper the deeper the blacks and higher the contrast (but you have to deal with glare). Also - a lesson learned the hard way - prints need to dry for > 1 week before you frame them. Otherwise the frame glass will get fogged from solvent emissions over the first year. (some papers are worse about this than others) I now do spray coatings on the paper to minimize fading and off gassing. When working with print lab outputs - I don't have any of those issues. |
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Hi Brent, I've been printing photographs for many years, up to 13x19. I've used a dye-based printer (Canon Pro-100) for around 10 years but recently decided to try using a pigment-based Canon Pro-300. I'll guess I'll just have to experiment to see what papers work best with astrophotographs. |
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| I totally agree with you Brent, I am not an expert but have done a significant amount of printing and have a dedicated room with neutral grey walls, specific lighting and calibrated monitor and printer. I printed family photos, architect and landscape projects and found for proofing purposes a home setup is fine but in reality, between the ink, paper and frustrations of getting a high-quality print was beyond my capabilities. I leave the printing to the pro's. |
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I have been really happy with Red River Metallic paper https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/metallic-paper.html the metallic layer gives it a depth that standard papers don't have. And these prints sell the best for me. But, this is one that has produced the most 'glass fog' once framed. So I have to print and let them dry for a long time. |
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Brent: *Is there a print lab you would recommend? Pat |
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Patrick Graham:When working with print lab outputs - I don't have any of those issues. sorry for drifting off topic to the original post (ink vs. dye): There are lots of good ones out there. I use BayPhoto.com (whitehall, nations photo, many others). I use their metal prints a lot. They have a 'sample pack' where they will print 1 image on many metal finishes so you can learn what they look like - it is really cheap to get the sample pack on 5x7 inch samples. They will do 15% off sales on metals maybe 3-4 times a year. If a print service is so cheap it is too good to be true - that usually means they obtain the rights to your photo for using their print service and they can and will sell your good photos without telling you. |
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Brent: Saw some astrophotos on this paper, made me buy some just now! |
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One other thought. High end printers must be regularly used. I would say you need more than one print job per week. If they sit idle things go wrong with clogging and you will have to do very expensive flush operations to unclog. I almost went with the step up from the Epson p900, but saw the upgrade was superior but without sufficient print volume had a lot of issues. |
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Patrick Graham:Brent: Bay Photos are exceptional. Metallic prints for astro stuff. You'll need to prep your images for printing. Usually brighten the image and scale at 300dpi. I usually print at 16x20 minimum. This avoids the home printer issues or drying/fading/clear coating, etc. Best of luck! |
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Thanks, Monty......Great info! Pat |
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I am sure that nobody wants to hear this, but I never print my astro-images anymore (I used to). The reason is simple. With the continued rapid progress in the hardware and especially the software and processing, a print that I make this year will look sad by comparison in a very short period of time. It bothers me not to have my best work displayed. I would prefer something like this that can be kept up to date. Expensive but a one time cost, not having to be redone all the time..... Sammy Frame I now confine my prints to things where not much change is happening, specifically landscapes and travel photos. My walls are filled with those (and I agree about Bay Photo, BTW). |
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| So I just finished printing one of my images on the Epson ET-8550 on a Red River Glossy Metalic paper, and it came out really good. I'm really impressed with the paper and printer combination. But I had to do some adjustments in Photoshop, as when I was soft proofing it, the image was looking a bit flat, especially in the dark / background. |
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Has anyone ever heard of Duratrans backlit printing film? When used with a backlight, astrophotos look incredible. BTW, thanks for mentions about Bay Photos; the customization is really cool. |
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Well, this thread I started got hijacked (I'm guilty of that too sometimes). All I wanted to discuss was the difference between dye and pigment inks. I am very experienced printing with a dye-based printer but recently bought the Canon Pro 300 (hasn't arrived yet) and am curious as to what to expect. Obviously, much of learning anything is trial-and-error but I had hoped to hear from other astrophotographers as to their experience using pigment-based inks. J |
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This google search might be useful https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+difference+between+dye+and+pigment+ink&oq=what+is+the+difference+between+dye+and+pigment+ink&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEJMTE4MzVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 EDIT: didn't read that you wanted to hear from an astrophotographer's experience  sorry about that
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This google search might be useful https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+difference+between+dye+and+pigment+ink&oq=what+is+the+difference+between+dye+and+pigment+ink&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoF0gEJMTE4MzVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 No problem, and thanks for the link! I've been reading contradictory info about the differences and I guess I am just going to find out myself when the printer arrives. I don't only print astrophotographs but lately that's all I have been printing. Some say that when using glossy paper dye ink is better, but one person who has the printer I bought says glossy looks great with the pigment based ink. Others say that the advances in printing technology over the past several years has narrowed the gap between color vibrancy with either ink types. I print only as large as 13x19 and at some point may send some prints to a company nearby that prints on metal, which I've seen and it looks really good. But with patience, good technique and attention to detail, I am not worried about getting high quality prints... |
