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Tareq Abdulla: Not really. I will still have the problem. Maybe it is my camera--a bad example. BTW--you have to shoot many subs and integrate them. It does not show up on individual subs. It does not matter what filter you use--I get the pattern in all filters. usually, before yesterday, I had only ever gotten the pattern at longer focal lengths--never with the FSQ and ,6x reducer (318 mm). I shot the Jellyfish last night and both stars are in the middle of the image basically, and they ruin the image. I just shot Ha. Maybe my sensor is degrading. |
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Rodd Dryfoos: Please, can you link to your results with all filters or any scope? I want to see more, i even can do my own later and compare, it might be your camera alone or maybe there are things you need to do, i can't just give up mine even if it is a common issue if i don't see that issue in my results. |
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*** do you seriously expect one to view all posts? Apparently all the vendors and fellow enthusiasts I spoke to missed your post as well. I submit it was well known only to a few--it was not broadly known--or I would have learned about it. Besides, was this the pro model--the one that had a variable off set? Mine does not--there were different models of this camera. And not everyone suffers from this, from what I am told. So one can'r necessarily go on someone elses experience, especially if they use all different equipment. |
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Which version is yours? Mine is the latest Pro model, as i said it got it last year, at good offer, not sure if yours was an old version or even a Pro but a Beta copy, who knows. I mentioned to you that i was aware of this issue since 2017, not sure what happened before 2017 because i wasn't in astro field, and it didn't take me time or so many people to know about the issue really, in fact some talked about this issue in their images here on Astrobin in the past, i was looking at results from this camera even from the old version and i saw that pattern and did read about it, and yet i bought mine, and i didn't care much as my QHY163M must also have same issue, but i never give up, and i will do more tests, buy QHY163M if that is any better for you or this new camera 294 mono which doesn't have this pattern at all, or buy 183 mono which is also no pattern at all but it has amp glow, otherwise maybe you have to pay more to go larger sensors, but then it might not be a good match as sampling with your FSQ + 0.6x, who knows. |
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I wasn't posting to say you should've seen this exact image, just to show that the issue existed well before you got your camera. Here's another random thread before you bought yours highlighting the issue. https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/565014-new-to-narrowband-imaging-question-about-strange-pattern-in-bright-star-halo/ It was well known, no use crying over it now. Just sell it and move on, learn from it and don't make the same mistake next time. Btw it does impact every model as it's the sensor that's the problem. |
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I wasn't posting to say you should've seen this exact image, just to show that the issue existed well before you got your camera. Here's another random thread before you bought yours highlighting the issue. https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/565014-new-to-narrowband-imaging-question-about-strange-pattern-in-bright-star-halo/ It was well known, no use crying over it now. Just sell it and move on, learn from it and don't make the same mistake next time. *What about the 2600? |
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Rodd Dryfoos:I wasn't posting to say you should've seen this exact image, just to show that the issue existed well before you got your camera. Here's another random thread before you bought yours highlighting the issue. https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/565014-new-to-narrowband-imaging-question-about-strange-pattern-in-bright-star-halo/ It was well known, no use crying over it now. Just sell it and move on, learn from it and don't make the same mistake next time. **and one last point--yes it was known--but only by some the "good" information about the filter was 100x more discussed on the forums and by the vendors than the "bad" information. Besides--I don't spend a lot of time on Cloudy nights. |
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Rodd Dryfoos: When I said it affects every model I meant every version of the 1600, Atik Horizon, Qhy 163 etc with that Panasonic sensor. The 2600mm looks like it's going to be a fabulous camera, early days mind you. https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/751795-zwo-asi-2600mm-pro-first-report-and-test-shots/ |
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I have an ASI-1600MM-cool, an ASI-1600MM-Pro, and a ATIK Horizon II that I use for guide cameras and they all work well in that capacity. There are a lot of cameras that show artifacts from the micro-lens array, including my FLI-ML16803. The Panasonic chip in the ASI-1600 series, the QSI cameras, and in the ATIK Horizon series have especially severe problems with bright stars that have been pretty well documented for a long time. So I suppose that it comes down to a case of buyer be aware. I've also seen some very nice DSO images taken with cameras that use the same sensor. Obviously, you have to limit the field to avoid bright stars and I can understand the frustration that that can lead to. Micro-lens artifacts are vey hard to remove so I get that part. I have a lot more trouble understanding a public spew that can't do anything good for the aftermarket value of a camera that you might want to sell. Brand new, that camera costs about 1/8 of what a new FLI-ML16803 costs and it's still a decent value for what it does. Cheaper doesn't always mean better. If you don't like it, sell it and move on. There are newer and better cameras coming out all the time. John |
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John Hayes: *I don't want to sell it. I think it might make an extraordinary lunar imaging camera. I could be wrong, but it has a big sensor (huge for a lunar/planetary camera), can take very short subs--suitable for AVIs, and it has small pixels. Have you ever tried imaging the Moon with the C14 and asi 1600? |
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Hey Rodd, I got the Atik Horizon 1 Color. My pictures are okay, and I dont really know if I have the halos or not. I do get lines on the sides of brighter stars that travel horizontally across the full length of the sensor (is this difraction) I hate it. Removing then causes me to lose such beautiful faint neblosity. That's why I don't like to ask my friends (or wife) about my images because according to them they should be hanging in the Louvre! I am the biggest critic of my images...relentlessly so. the only issue I have with the ASI 1600 is the microlensing artifact. Other than that--I actually love it. that is what is so frustrating--that one thing is enough to counter all other traits of the camera. The problem I have CMOS is the fact that the subs are short enough to make dithering too time consuming. If I dithered for my broadband subs I would spent 1/2 my time dithering (dithering and recovery). If I dither 2 it takes 30 sec to recover. I use 4 sec guide subs, so maybe that is why. But any shorter and I chase seeing. So with 30 sec subs I collect 1/2 hour of data every hour. That is not enough...seeing that I need 20-30 to render a decent image. That is a lot of weeks for one image. So I get the cat scratch effect sometimes too, becuase I often turn dithering off. |
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| Feel your pain Rodd. I had the same ASI1600 micro-lens issues with my ED80 doublet refractor (narrowband) but oddly not my current f4 Newt (LRGB though)? As for knowing about the micro-lens reflections, I too didn’t know about this issue when buying the camera and thought I had done my research too. Wondering what we missed!? I didn’t know about it until I had the issue (Alnitak) and then, when searching on the issue itself ,found out heaps. I think, for me, it’s not just being across all the forums etc. but something to do with the way I search for info online. Somehow to find out about the issue you had to have has it first! Given it seems very scope/filter/star specific I think there has been an issue stating anything definitive about the issue. Would be great if there was a list that simply said if you have this scope (or these filters or whatever) you will get these issues. Or does that exist now? |
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Ben: You shouldn't worry much about it, because you have so many keeper and winner also from this camera, so that is all what matter, thinking too much about every single issue will kill the fun and sometimes you won't do anything much thinking only about issues, so let it be whatever and you try to be skilled to cover the issue another way. I mentioned earlier in this topic that i see this issue more with refractors than with reflectors, I don't know why, maybe it could be that mirrors doesn't give the chance to the camera to show issues, or the way of reflected photons, i was going to say why not trying high end refractor, but i just remember that Rodd is already having high end refractors, so it should be something else then. I kept thinking about filters, some said when they used Astrodon filters they didn't see the issues, but i think they mean halo, not microlensing, or what type of filters even narrowbanding, for example testing 7-8nm filter vs. 5-6nm vs. 3-4nm, this way we can isolate more factors, for now i saw amazing results from this camera since 2017, in fact the main reason that made me to get in astronomy or astrophotography is because i saw many beautiful results from ASI1600 in the past here on Astrobin, it is funny that after 1 or 2 years people start to give up, i will give up from first week or month of use if i see issues, not after 1-4 years, but people are always free to decide, if someone accepting an issue in an item, many others will give up and replace, i want to replace my Optolong Ha filter when i see many are happy with this filter, but i never tell people to stay away from Optolong or i ask that this brand and filter should be discontinued from markets. |
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| Hey Tariq, I’m certainly not giving up on it. For me it’s a great camera! The chip size is just okay for my 1.25” filters, the pixel size is perfect for my focal length, and it seems (at least with broadband) that the reflector doesn’t produce the micro-lens reflections. With the ED80 that had the micro lens reflections I used Astrodon 5nm Ha, 3nm OIII and 3nm SII so Astrodon isn’t really an answer to the issue. It would be nice to nail it down though (or have a rigorous testing of the issue) to understand it better. I’ve seen some quite technical comments about glass coatings on the sensor window but then why would these micro lens reflections change from an f6.3 ED doublet refactor to an f4 Newt? Maybe my coma corrector has something to do with it? Lots of variables but not too many. I get the feeling this is old tech now but you’d hope there would be some rigorous testing as a result of this issue in future cameras. |
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In all cases i don't forget about the history with this camera, in fact without people talking much about this issue i might never know about it, i just try to learn how to make nice beautiful results more than how to fix every issue in my setup, i wasted last 3 years only trying to fix issues, i ended up having no great images, only very few of planetary which is not a problem anyway, so from last year and hoping this year i will focus more on the positive[or pros] performance of my setup more than negative [or cons] things, this way i will start to produce nice results then later i can think again about issues. I can't keep buying new stuff only because my current stuff have issues, and sometimes i buy another stuff to solve an issue, it did, but i face new issue that also needs solving, so for me it will be like endless, nothing perfect, i swear that many CMOS cameras i know always has an issue one way or another, and this i also saw when i was in photography between 2006 until 2010, i kept buying camera after camera and lens after lens only because of issues, now i have many cameras and lenses only collecting dust, so i learnt hard way that i should stop moaning and crying about issues and only use my gear, i kept using my ST80 since 2017 until today and people are complaining that i buy a lot of stuff, funny how come i buy a lot and i still use ST80, and i have only three mono cooled cameras for DSO while i saw many having at least 5 cooled cameras maybe including CCD, so i should not look at people bad experiences or wrong thinking and do my homework, i am sure my mount has issues, my scopes have issues, my filters have issues, my laptop has issues, heck even my sky has issues that i can't fix at all. |
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My problem with this camera is that the sensor costs about 5$, is 10 years old and not very good to start with. You add a peltier element and sell it for 1500€ and don't tell people it has micro lensing issues. I don't understand why not more people are bothered by that. |
