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Hey 👋 i am in this hobby for about two years now. Until now i made all my pictures with a dslm and photolenses and i am now at the point where i want to buy a dedicated camera and a telescope exclusively for astrophotography (no interest at visual astronomy). My setup will look something like that. - eq6r - z6 - apsc sized cooled deepsky camera (90% sure it will become a asi2600) - 100-120mm refractor - mini pc or asi air (depends on the camera) sadly the fsq106 is to expensive for me and i am pretty sure that it becomes either a esprit 100 (+riccardi reducer) or an fra600. anyone of you that would size down and rather get an fsq85 if he/she has to choose? which one of the two would you guys recommend to me? Or maybe there are other alternatives i don’t know of rn. thx. andi |
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Hi Andi, I don't own any of those scopes so I can't offer any first hand opinions but I too have been doing a bit of window shopping for a larger refractor with a bit more focal length (I currently have a Redcat51) I put together a simple comparison of some options just for myself but happy to share what I have. I have a 2600MC so the pixel scale would be the same as your proposed setup. SW Esprit 100 550mm 1.41"per pixel f Ratio 5.5 StellaMira 90mm ED 540mm 1.44 6 SharpStar 100QII 580mm 1.34 5.8 Askar FRA500 500mm 1.55 5.6 SW Esprit 120 840mm 0.92 7 650mm @ f5.3 with 0.77 reducer |
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Hi have a 94edph whith corrector. (414mm F4.4) It's not perfect but, i think is a good quality / price. You can also watch the FRA series (400/500/600) Clear Skies from Belgium <- (this is a paradox) ! |
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| I was looking into the same options you listed, and decided on Askar FRA600 (which will be mounted on EQ6R too and connected to 2600MM). Askar is a new brand, there is not much about it, but at least it has the flattener built-in so while it may have more chromatic aberration than Esprit it will save me from issues with adjusting the flattener distance (which includes struggling with various extenders to have the exact backfocus distance etc. - I hate doing it, it is super frustrating). I also have WO GT81 and flattener adjustment is an never-ending story, stars are never round across APS-C frame, I want to avoid it with my next OTA. |
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Danny Lee: Thx. Have compared a lot of pictures today. Need to say i like the esprit 100/120 picutres the most. Fsq 85 (bit to small) and fsq106 pictures are even better but i don’t want to spend that big amounts of money. |
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I was looking into the same options you listed, and decided on Askar FRA600 (which will be mounted on EQ6R too and connected to 2600MM). Askar is a new brand, there is not much about it, but at least it has the flattener built-in so while it may have more chromatic aberration than Esprit it will save me from issues with adjusting the flattener distance (which includes struggling with various extenders to have the exact backfocus distance etc. - I hate doing it, it is super frustrating). I also have WO GT81 and flattener adjustment is an never-ending story, stars are never round across APS-C frame, I want to avoid it with my next OTA. Do you also own the dedicated reducer for the fra600? And if so are you happy with the results? |
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Do you also own the dedicated reducer for the fra600? And if so are you happy with the results? FRA600 is ordered, it will be delivered in February. I am getting the reducer as well. |
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I had the Esprit100, a very good solid scope. Very interested in the Askar 600 as well. DO post updates once you guys have some results. |
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Have the Sharpstar EDPH76, its pretty good but the APS-C corners do seem to show a bit of aberrations. I haven't fine tuned the spacing yet. Recent image: https://www.astrobin.com/jo19ge/C/ |
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| Esprit 100 is in another league, different tier altogether. |
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| There is a review for FRA600 on Agenaastro mentioning chromatic aberration when using the .7x reducer and ASI2600MM. |
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Esprit 100 is in another league, different tier altogether. Yes, it really produces great images. I also like the option of buying an selected/certified esprit from lacerta. |
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Let me shamelessly share my own review on FRA600: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/805371-my-tests-of-askar-fra600-part-i-full-frame-sensors/ Have no experience on Esprit. So obviously I can't comment on it. You need to find some good Esprit reviews to balance. ASKAR is a new brand, but not exactly something brand new. It's a brand under SharpStar. So most of the things you know about SharpStar perhaps also apply to ASKAR. |
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| TS APO100Q. quadruplet, no need any correctors, no need any backfocus distans. Focus point is point of correction. |
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Hi Andi, I have the SW Esprit 100, Its reliable, well made and give a very nice field (550mm) that suitable for most objects. I have it around 7 years now.. working very steady. Geoduck ! Ali |
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I have the Esprit 100ED and the QHY268M (APS-C). The field of view is about 2.4 degrees on the long edge of the sensor. It's plenty fast at f/5.5 because the camera has such low read noise. The field flattener is included with the scope, so do you even need a reducer? This setup allows you to use 36 mm filters if you go with mono. Here's an uncropped image from last summer that only has 4 hours of integration behind it.  |
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 I use the Esprit 100ED with the ASI2600MC on an EQ6-R and would choose it again if I restarted - very highly recommended. I personally would not want a reducer on it as the 550mm FL is ideal for most of the targets I image and I'm happy doing mosaics for the larger ones. If restarting I would now go for the mono 2600 with Antlia 3nm filters, but saying that,I am quite happy with the results I get with the OSC and dual band filters.
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| You can't really complain about a Horsehead image of that quality, and it's not even a mono camera. There's plenty of real estate there without any reducer. |
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Roger Nichol: Mono would be nice but sadly another (at least) 1000 bucks to spend. thank you all for your helpful answers. guess i will be going esprit 100. Should give me good results with my z6 and my future dedicated astro camera. |
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| I've been through few telescopes in the past few years, and my only advise is what's on paper rarely reflects the whole story. You can compare FL and F-ratio and field of view, but in the end, what matters is the quality you get, build quality and image quality. I can only say one thing, you can never go wrong with the Esprit line. I will take it a further step, you can never go wrong with sky watcher stuff, and this is based on my experience and my fellow local astrophotographers. |
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Michel Makhlouta: I wish it was true. I (almost) bought Esprit 80 it was complete rubbish, I had to return it. |
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I've had an Esprit 100ED for around 18 months and FYI, the field flattener is included with the OTA (I saw an earlier post that seemed to infer that it was not part of the package). It is not my first scope (my first was a 10" Meade Newtonian about 4 decades ago). I ultimately put the Newtonian aside as it was, in terms about a relationship, all about the Newtonian. ;-) The SW Esprit really takes the OTA out of the process so to speak. It is relatively wide field and at the faster end of the spectrum compared to similar diameter refractors. Optical quality may not be to Takahashi standards, but it is better IMO than some of its other direct competitors at similar and lower price points. I have never had an issue in my photos that was related to the OTA and its FOV fits the vast majority of targets that I pursue. The only 'weakness' it has is the focuser - the draw tube is about 75% extended with the OEM focuser which can be a source of flexure depending on what you have connected past the flattener. I ultimately decided to replace the OEM focuser with a Moonlight Express Nightcrawler WR30 that is both an automatic focuser and field rotator and it has been wonderful (beside being very rigid). With the exception of a few wide angle Milky Way images done with a DSLR/Lense when I first started in the hobby, everything else has been done with the Esprit. My Astrobin Gallery Pick a good quality guide scope/camera and good quality astro camera and filters/filter setup. I currently use an Altair GS60 guide scope on an ADM ring V/D plate adatper with a ZWO ASI290MM for a guide scope. My primary imager is a ZWO ASI 2600MC-P, although I started with an ZWO ASI 294MC-P. The 2600 provides a full APS-C sized sensor compared to the 4/3 size of the 294, plus it does not have the lamp glow issue that the 294 has. I use (currently) a ZWO filter slider with Optolong filters although I"m considering an filter wheel and OAG. The software suite you use has a big impact and a lot of that is more personal preference for a particular work flow style. I use N.I.N.A. for my primary sequence management, with PHD2 for guiding. I use PixInsight for post processing. There are a myriad of other choices, so I'll go no further on this aspect. I hope your experience is different than mine but my largest problem has been mounts. I started out with an SW EQ6R-Pro that lasted about a month before it had a catastrophic failure inside the RA during an imaging session. I replaced it with an Ioptron GEM45 which suffered ANOTHER RA issue when the bearing mount became loose in its setting. It was repaired by Ioptron but I never really trusted it again. Decided I was done with the 'mass produced' China mount lotter and went for what I should have done from the beginning, gotten one of the more premium mounts - I acquired a Software Bisque MyT. In terms of relative guiding performance, for targets at a similar declination, this was my experience when the respective mounts are running good, and seeing is good: EQ6R-Pro: .7 - 1" Total RMS error GEM 45: .6 - .8" Total RMS error MyT: .28 - .55" Total RMS error I started on a tripod, went to a tri-pier (big improvement), then went to a pier in my backyard. The pier is, by far, the best solution for mount setup if you have that option. The tri-pier runs a relatively close 2nd. Tripod would no longer be an option I'd consider for excpet for something smaller/shorter like a WO Z73 or similar. YMMV. I use an Intel 10th Gen NUC and remotely operate my rig from my office desk via my home wifi setup. Here is a photo of my rig on its pier:  |
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I have had my Esprit 100ED for about 18 months now. To be fair, I did have some problems with mine, but I think they are past history. One weird thing that I noticed is that I could only use a guide scope when it was mounted on the focuser (finder bracket). Mounting the guide scope on the rings caused star trailing that was readily visible in 5 minute subs. The conclusion was either that the optics were misaligned somewhere in between, or maybe the focuser was flexing. Another anomaly that I had was that my flat frames didn't calibrate out when I was imaging at f/3.6 with the Starizona Apex-L reducer. No matter what I did, I could not get good flats. Finally, I found that water vapor easily entered the telescope and condensed on the inside surfaces of the optics - and it was very hard to get it out. About a month ago, I was twisting a different camera onto the focuser, and the back half of the telescope suddenly rotated about 30 degrees around the "captain's wheel." The weather was very cold when this happened. It appears that the scope was shipped to me in a state where it wasn't screwed together snugly. As soon as I twisted it together in cold weather, the flats at f/3.6 suddenly worked perfectly. Was there a light leak at the captain's wheel fitting, or were the bad flats due to variations in flexure as the angle of the scope changed? Is that where the moisture was getting into the OTA? I haven't had enough good weather to try moving the guide scope back to the rings to determine if the telescope is still "bent" or not, but I think I might be free of troubles from here on out. Despite the problems I'm describing above, most of the experience has been positive. I don't get any unexpected chromatic aberrations in my stars. The field of view is wide. The APS-C sensor is well-illuminated, and the corners are getting plenty of light. With my QHY268M, it's fast enough at f/5.5 that I don't have to take long subs or even think about using a reducer. The field of view is actually too large for many of my targets, and I sometimes end up cropping the final image just to frame it better. It's clear that you can't judge a mass-production scope based on the experiences of a small number of people. One person in this thread has had brilliant success with Sky-Watcher products. One returned his Esprit and swore off them. My experience is somewhere in between. |
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I've had an Esprit 100ED for around 18 months and FYI, the field flattener is included with the OTA (I saw an earlier post that seemed to infer that it was not part of the package). Great setup ;) sadly a bit to expensive for me. i will definitely go eq6r and just hope for the best, only other mount i have interest in right now is the upcoming zwo harmonic mount. Rn i think i will go - eq6r - z6 (buying a asi2600 later on) - mini pc with nina controlled via my macbook - mgen2 for guiding (already owning it) - 99,9% going for the esprit 100 (selected and certified) 0,01% going for an fsq85 - eaf maybe one from primaluce or zwo - app and affinity photo for image processing Great pictures on your astrobin! |
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Well it was an evolution, it did not start out as you see it here. There are many people that have great experiences with the EQ6R -Pro. What I learned is that QA/QC on the mass produced China mounts is a lottery. Most do OK, some do great, some are miserable or suffer early failures (as in my case). To my knowledge, no one else has gone through three mounts (the final one, my SB MyT) in 8 months. I could have done without the experience, although it did provide a very valuable learning curve. One lesson learned - the Skywatcher tripod for the eQ6R uses a screw down 'stop'/index for the azimuth adjusters to push against. Because of sloppy machining tolerances in the thread, many users have experienced the problem where the side forces from AZ adjusters work the stud/stop back and forth during adjustments. This eventually loosens the stop and you can get a 4dg az movement just pushing on the mount with everything locked down. My first hint that this was occurring was 'dead band' in the AZ adjusters - I would make significant adjustments and nothing would move, then it would move quite significantly for very minor adjustment. Visually nothing appeared to be wrong, but then I tried the 'test' of trying to twist the mount on the tripod with all the AZ adjusters locked. If it moves (as mine did), the AZ stop/adjuster index is loose. My 'fix' was to use LockTite (Blue) to lock the threads. This worked pretty well yet didn't prevent me from removing the stud if I needed to. IMO, the SW tripod is not worth the effort though. The Ioptron Tri-pier with the adaptor for the SW EQ6-R is a very very much better solution. Again, IMO. YMMV. Also, my recommendation, don't waste your money on the SW pier extension. It is an unfinished design in that there is no way to lock the extension is the AZ (against turning forces). Just a slight brush against the mount or a counter weight is sufficient to turn the entire pier extension/mount assembly. Several users have machined in/drill threaded different lock bolt setups to secure the pier extension to the tripod so that it will not turn. Just don't, IMO. (Another reason to consider the Ioptron Tri-Pier instead which is also much steadier than the SW tripod). |
